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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
aren't the only two possibilities
This is like hitting my head up against a brick wall. Based on what you've said, you seem to think that all men are basically alike, and want sex right away, and all women are basically alike and want to withhold sex as a bargaining chip.
I don't think that's true about either gender. But I don't know if there's really anything left to be said because you seem determined to cling to what you believe. All I can say is, approaching women as the enemy in a contest to get them to give it up isn't going to make dating very pleasant. Maybe if you stop believing that we all think of sex as a power play, and start thinking of each woman you meet as a individual with her own reasons for the things she does, you'll find interacting with them more enjoyable.
Good luck.
in the ways men as a group and women as a group view these things? Of course this doesn't mean that all men or all women think alike.
You said: "my point is that "the way women think about relationships" and "men(occasionally women) who just want sex" aren't the only two possibilities"
From the accumulation of everything you've said, your points seems exactly to be that men think one thing and women think another and those ARE the only two possibilites. And, not just that, but women should respect the mythical "male pov" and do things "men's" way, and if we don't we're using sex against you to beat you into submission.
I don't know you, obviously, but your posts here have conveyed (maybe inadvertently) a bitterness toward women that is starting to make me sad for you. I apologize if that seems condescending, because I don't mean it that way. Honestly, really, I promise, if you approach women with good-hearted intentions and treat them well (by which I mean, as well as you would another guy you hope to become friends with), they will respond in kind. If you are surrounded by a mutant strain of evil, withholding, manipulative women, please know that women do exist elsewhere who are not like that. I'm sorry if it's mean, but I kind of think the problem might lie with you-- no one wants to be treated like a piece of meat, and from what you say, I think that's how you view us. We're more like you than you think.
I do think, in some areas anyway, that men have a tendency to see things in a certain way lots of times and women have a tendency to see things another way. I just don't think that the fact that men tend to have a view that differs from the the view that women tend to have means that men "only want sex"
evil, withholding, manipulative. There are reasons, on both "sides" (does it help that I used quotes) for these differences, which should at least be openly discussed.
People make choices. People have values. Perhaps he was attracted to this woman based upon assumptions about her values as ones that might have agreed with his own. Upon finding out he was wrong (considering her past acts) he has every right to question his relationship with her. This does not make him a jerk. If he keeps stringing her along and punishing her too long for something that she didn't do as an act against him, then he is a jerk. But honestly, it sounds more like he really liked her and was upset to find out about all this and now has a serious conflict about how to proceed.
I personally have made choices in situations where I could have participated in threesomes, not to do so. And not because I think it's wrong, but because I don't want to be the kind of person who does(personal value choice). I've had girlfriends who had previously participated in threesomes. It didn't make me dislike them, or not continue to go out with them, but I wouldn't have wanted to marry any of them or get too serious.
Obviously he's a person with different ideas about the world, and they both need to find other people who share their individual values.
I think this question is important because we are forced to evaluate our sexual morality when giving a considered response.
I think it is fine if someone doesn't like threesomes or sees them as compromising, slutty or prioritising the body over the more complex self.
We all have morality, for example I am repulsed by those men (perhaps there are a few women into this sort of practice to) who turn into fetish the missing limbs of amuputees. Does this make me nuts, uptight or righteous?
The issue is not what is wrong with the boyfriends opinion. but how he has gone about conducting the relationship following his girlfriend's disclosure.
This guy is not exhibiting positive traits that would make him long term relationship sea-worthy. The letter writer needs to have a talk with this man. She must cosider before the heavy discussion the contingencies and how she will respond to the boyfriend's possible words. Ultimately, if he won't actively seek help to forgive, move on and re-establish a bond then all is lost. It appears the guy is incapable, for whatever stunted or holier than thou reason, to regain any respect for the letter writer.
In contrast to Cary's suggestion the girlfriend might have been better off not disclosing this past event, I disagree. As a consoling aside, perhaps it was important the threesome was made known so she could learn unpleasant information about her potential husband. and decide whether this is the type of man she wants to share her life with.
Jen
First of all I need to tell you i'm an pro-therapist and experimental psychologist. My primary specialization is drug addiction and i'm maybe even quite well known in my city (central europe). I'm here because it happened again that one of my clients showed me a link to an discussion like this because he has the same problem. Actually I also have a certain specialization in the "past issues" for a certain reason. Well my beloved wife also had an unconvential sex with two men involving alcohol and a large part of idiocy... what a coincidence isn't it??
I would love to tell you every piece of empirical (empirical..not just thought out based on logic but on the real things) knowledge that I gathered troughout all of my 10 year experience with this. If I hadn't suffered something like this I would never beleive that there are strict patterns to this. I suffered it during my first years of therapy services. Probably this is why I know if the case is worth salvaging or not. Since i'm late there's nothing to salvage and afterall the probability was pretty low. I would love to tell all the... sorry for the adjective but ignorant and lucky people who have never hit problems like these to be quiet for a moment and let rather the sufferers talk. They should also stop speaking about evolutionary roles of different genders and all the double-standards stuff because from my empiricaly driven praxis I'm pretty sure that in the deepest level human conscious there's no such thing as a double-standard for these kind of emotions. I would also like to advise sufferers only to describe emotions and not try to say anything smart because that's only a fuel for ignorant people and some crazy feminists we have here.
We psychologists know that once something goes wrong there's no way you can turn things back like they were before. For example that's why everyone who suffered drug addiction and got helped will be an abstinenting drug addicts for the rest of his life. Yes you might help people to acheive an overall higher level of life quality but these certain things will only represent a glued thrashed clay pot and therefore not as sturdy and nice looking as before.
Past promiscuity is a deal-breaker 100 times in 100 and can either crash the pot or only scratch it. It only depends how are people good in positioning their emotional clay pots in the way of the ever swinging promiscuity ball. From my praxis I have seen that less inteligent people and people who have faith in metaphysical things are the ones who have a higher probability success. People who think too much, people who dig in their emotions deep, people who understands themselves perfectly are the ones with maybe a 5% success rate. So the more you know and the more you can realize things the more you get into a greater trouble or in rare instances into lesser problems (my case).
Ill effects of past promiscuity are alot of times emotionaly even worse than the ones of infidelity. They affect everybody even people who have done the same exact things. The victim is ussualy the other person who have not done these things. People who have done these things ussualy have a very hard time doing any empathic connection to their beloved ones thanks to an very important divine-like self-defense mechanisms called the ego and self-worth. I had one case of a man who felt like a good for nothing piece of a cancerous polip for doing a threesome act because he had a full blast of empathic connection to his beloved girlfriend and denial of his ego/selfworth. He realised before reaching my help that the pot is really only glued and that almost cost him his fragile mind. Luckily we sorted it out and he's functioning quite normal again.
So some people want to be cured by weak tricks (weak glue) and some want to be able to face their emotions with opposite emotions or facts that cause these emotions. I was the one who wanted to face it no matter what and I didn't want to use any of those illusionary tricks and i'm very happy that my case has been given a certain privilege to be glued quite solidly. But which privilege is it well that's something I cannot talk about because there are sufferers reading this and that would maybe crack their pots of faith. What's still completly sad for me that people who hasn't got over it or which have been dumped because of it still make the wrong assumptions over and over again. LW is also the one who's brain got jammed.
I really cannot talk it too much since I don't want to put other sufferers to great risk too early - that would be very unfair of me and I just have to let it be. I would love to help of all of you. To help you salvage your relationship or leave it peacefully forever. But for any of the desired effect I would need to personaly know you and try to work with you day and night. And I have so many patients and work on my hands that I can't simply do it. I hope people who need help will find the correct ones who are not just magicians and illusionists but real emphatic creatures. This is the problem with today's allopathic medicine that it's so cold and money oriented that people are trapped in an grave illusion of normal average health.
Dear sufferers. The only purpose of this what i write is to make you 100% positively beleive that there are people who really understand you and try to help you. I also understand people with no experience why they say things about it like that - which are sadly absolutely unfiar. The only thing I have to tell them is to consider themselves very very lucky.
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