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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
William Blake: The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom
In the journey to find love, in the romantic ideal, the wisdom of the past experience(s) would reinforce the relationship. Revolving around the concepts of trust and safety, and, perhaps, take the form:
If my love experienced this before we met, and feels safe enough to share it with me, then I feel safer because I know the truth, and that it has past; I in turn now seek to make them safer in appreciating this aspect of their life, and accept it as part of the journey that led to us being together
The LWBF seems to be a bit stuck on himself—loser.
He's not able to get over it -- I mean, HE asked, yes? Perhaps you can be friends in ten or fifteen years if he ever grows up. In the meantime, change your phone number and try and meet some gentlemen who are at least dry behind the ears.
What's the difference between Treasury Bonds and men..?
Treasury Bonds mature.
LaurieNY wrote: "The guys who get freaked out over their girlfriend in a threesome are the same guys who are disgusted by the idea of male homosexuality, but would happily pay to watch female homosexuals getting it on. In other words, hypocrites who think that anything that doesn't personally turn THEM on is "sick," but whatever they dig is fine. Sex is "sacred" but that lap dance at the bachelor party was just a guy thing, honey... you know it didn't mean anything!"
This is so wrong I can't even begin to explain it. I've had gay roommates, gay friends, but am straight. That has nothing to do with it. And not all of us who think sex is some kind of sacred entity get lap dances or even have bachelor parties.
I'd like to think I'm enlightened enough that I could accept that my girlfriend had been in a threeway with two guys. I don't know if I could handle that. My last girlfriend (I am now happily married) had quite a bit more sexual experience than I had, and I could deal with that. But I agree that I probably couldn't get that picture out of my mind if she had told me she had been in a MMF.
I think as long as these socializations that we experience in an admittedly unjust society exist, we should just keep our traps shut about our sexual pasts, on both sides, unless we met our SO at a gangbang, and thus know we both can handle it.
It seems these conversations only stir up trouble.
My hand, my imagination, and Eva Green from the new James Bond film.
i am a therapist. i don't have a boat, but this is an awesome response. go cary!
I was in a MMW threesome, and a MWW threesome, before meeting my husband. He thinks I'm lucky to have had that chance and only regrets not having lucked out himself. We laugh about each other's sexual exploits, knowing that those experiences are part of the lives that brought us together in the end.
So not all guys flip out at the idea.
P.S. My husband is looking over my shoulder, so I asked him if he had anything else to say. He said that people need to stop flipping out about things that people do in the past - what does that have to do with what's going on now?
You just can't disconnect sex and morality, although any two people may disagree over where to draw the line.
I do agree with this to some extent. For example, one of the first few respondents mentioned that her boyfriend once had sex with a homeless person in an alley. That could have some elements of him exploiting that person's bad situation, and that has moral implications about the type of person he is/was.
A threesome, however, with consenting adults is less problematic. I agree that the LR's boyfriend was being unreasonable to focus on this. For one thing, he can't unring that bell. And for another, the act in itself wasn't wrong.
As far as Chasing Amy goes, for me the big issue is that the girlfriend lied. Not about the scope of her experience, but about being this committed lesbian for whom Holden was her first male lover. There was some attractive draw to her being this lesbian that he was able to "win," and she even admitted that she knew that it would make their bond seem more special. There was an element of surprise -- not only that she was very sexually experienced, but that she wasn't the previously committed lesbian that she had portrayed herself to be. He put her on a pedestal, but she helped as well. And that's wasn't cool.
This letter hit me hard, and I have to say while I agree with Cary that the BF is irrational and even nuts on this issue, I know from experience that this type of thing might not mean the guy is completely nuts.
I have now been married well over ten years and when I first got engaged to my husband it was a "second time" relationship where we had been together for months just "for fun" (for really excellent sex) in College, but we had been apart for many years, then we hooked up again. The second time we actually really fell very deeply in love as two people who really know each other, enjoyed just about all the same things, similar politics, irreverent, areligious and we really had lots of fun in every way. This wonderful guy is REALLY handsome (excellent physical shape), funny, incredibly smart as well as well-educated, he sings beautifully and plays music, loves children and absolutely sensitive and enlightened--one of the very few perfect males for a highly educated, feminist woman. However, my love was obsessed with my past, wanted me to list everyone I'd slept with, wanted me to basically tell him they were all lousy in bed. He got furious when I began with the truth, so then I tried saying I forgot (which I did mostly), then I tried lying to say they were all jerks with this or that problem (which is not really a total lie when you broke up for some reason...)--Nothing worked--he would throw huge tantrums at me....it was absurd.
However, I worked on it because I saw it as a bizarre emotional hangup he just couldn't get past--and it didn't come up all the time. We got married and it got much better--but I just had to never talk to many people from my past--even some of my female friends were threatening--and certainly never mention past boyfriends. After about 4-5 years he found some old journal of mine and read it--and a HUGE fight happened as he caught me in some of my lies ... I just told him coerced lies were ridiculous. About a year later he very meanly cheated on me with a friend of ours, which was horrible and very painful--but somehow it came out he was getting me back for my lies etc.
All this sounds so completely nuts and dysfunctional but in reality--our "true relationship" has always been awesome. He is 95% rational and brilliant and caring and supportive--no joke--but he has this bizarre insecure side. I decided to just forgive and absolutely forget his cheating--which shocked and amazed him that I loved him that much that I took some of the blame (because cheating is always a 2-way street) and we just got stronger. We're together for good and he is the best thing that could have happened to me. I still think he is nuts about my past--but life is in the present and the present between us is GREAT. So I would argue that if one could convince this guy to LIVE in the PRESENT--value what you have and not torture yourself with ghosts--all might YET be Fabulous. Don't give up--SHAKE HIM to WAKE UP.
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Salon headlines in your mailbox
