Guys at 23 have no idea how to date, get freaked out, or are just not looking for a serious relationship. Get someone in their late 20s - not so old that he's weird for dating someone a decade younger but old enough to be looking for something more meaningful and have the hang of how to navigate dating and relationships. Also, consider, are you getting to chummy with these guys after 5 or 6 dates? lots of guys may act sweet and cuddly, but once you reciprocate, they bolt. Err on the side of restraint. Anyhoo, good luck. You're obviously attractive enough to get these dates and level headed enough to be successful in the rest of your life. It's no fun being alone, but persevere, and when you do find the right one, you'll have a decent life to share: a good job, hobbies you've developed, a social circle you're a part of.

Dear LW,

Please heed Cary's advice and ignore the morons to follow with lewd cracks about the 'hole that needs filling' or kvetching about having 'real problems.' They're just sad and need to lash out. Ignore them and they'll wither and die...what's left to die, that is.

Meanwhile, keep getting to know yourself. Regardless of whom you eventually meet and share your goldfish creckers with, you're stuck with you for the rest of your life. Might as well make some good company.

none of these series of dates have involved any lewd behavior unless you count lingering hugs

Interesting.

How do you feel that squares with this?

http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/38552

When I was 23, as I recall, it had not been that long since my fundamental dating question had changed from "does this woman want to have sex?" to "does this woman want to have sex with ME?" Unless the LW is part of, and dates within, a very religious community (nothing wrong with that, but she didn't say so, so I don't assume it) by those fourth or fifth or sixth dates I would think a lot of guys her age are wondering if she's really interested in sex at all, not just sex with them, if all that's happening is a lingering hug or two.

I'm not suggesting she roll in the hay at date two, but without some sign of physical interest and/or affection, the majority of guys in that age range are going to be looking elsewhere simply because they aren't getting that "this woman is interested in me" vibe, which is usually going to be functionally identical with the "this woman wants to have sex" vibe (again, in that age range). They don't get the sense that sex (and the intimacy and depth that can come with it) is in the offing, soon or perhaps ever.

Thus her job is to figure out a way that is morally acceptable to her to get across the fact that she is interested in them, including physically. The hugs ain't doing it. And despite what Cary says, just waiting for the guy who will want her enough to figure out that she wants him--despite showing no actual evidence of it--isn't a great plan.

It sounds to me like the LW is already acquainted with the patience game. She sounds like an ordered, controlled person who may actually benefit from getting a little wild. No need to whore it up, but if she is attracted, why not plant a surprise peck on the guy's mouth right in the middle of dinner. That's right, I said it--right in the middle of dinner! Or at the top of the ferris wheel, or during the movie, or whatever. If life seems to be motoring along at a steady, uninspired pace, maybe shaking things up somehow is a good idea. Lack of expectation is fine, being open and not having one's sights set on a fixed result is fine, but taking action and conjuring a little magic is perfectly within one's power.

As a 28-year-old man, I can say that if I go on 5 dates (or so) with a woman and we haven't "made out" yet, I tend to conclude that she's not romantically interested in me and is just too polite to start turning down my date requests. The LW might have better luck if she gave guys more physical signals that she's interested in them (and not just as friends).

Note that "making out" doesn't mean having sex. It can just be prolonged kissing with some light petting. But it should be enough that you can both tell that you're turning each other on.

Guys rarely buy a cow when they get their milk for free.

The fact that she's not fucking in a hurry...is something admirable, not questionable. And if that's all guys are worried about after the 1st or 8th date, or until they've discussed sex, emotions, protection, STDs, pregnancy, and parenthood, then neither one has any business fucking. None. And I'm a Liberal. It's called self-respect, you morons. Try it. you don't have to be a Conservative to abstain until your mature enough to handle the entire package. I'm an Atheist, registered Democrat, ACLU member who grew up in the 70s and knew better even then.

The atheist, democrat, liberal, ACLU-belonging, self-respecting, cow-buying contingent has spoken! Easy, there. It sounds like you're arguing counter to a point that was never made. People, including myself, were suggesting more harmless expression of interest, not baby-making, STD-contracting, scary dangerous sex on the first date without a condom high on crack.

And the whole free milk/cow thing is old and sort of insulting, in my opinion. Perpetuates notions of women as existing on either side of virgin/slut dichotomy.

any guy who gets nothing but hugs for 7 dates (anything above 3, really) is going to turn cold. because you are stringing him along. If you don't know by the third date, drop him and try another!

First date. Tenth date. Hold out for a ring. Bah.

Who's to say the LW is doing anything "wrong"? Maybe it's just not her time yet to hook up with her partner-for-life, and it has nothing to do with the "signals" she puts out or her desirability as a potential girlfriend. There are, after all, advantages to not being attached, or at least not being permanently attached too soon.

I'm pretty sure my boyfriend, who I've been with for a year-plus now, is "the one" for me if anybody is. We met when he was 38 and I was 41. We've talked about it and we agree that had we met 15 or 20 years ago, we probably would have found one another appealing but wouldn't yet have been truly ready, on the most fundamental level, to settle down into lasting intimacy. There were too many things we had yet to learn, both about ourselves and about how to treat a partner. Also, it helps that he had his children with another woman instead of me; one less thing for us to fight about! (Neither one of us is much into the fighting thing, and I'm happily childfree but enjoy spending time on occasion with his two teenagers.)

I felt similarly desperate to the LW when I was 23 to find "him," and I wish I could go back in time and tell my 23-year-old self to take a giant chill pill. Seriously. If you have the right guy, at the right time, you won't have to try that hard to figure out what to say and do -- occasionally you might run into a roadblock or two that you have to work on together, but if it's right, it won't feel like constantly pushing a boulder uphill. There will be flow, an underlying sense of ease and rightness.

In the meantime, hanging out with the "wrong" guys can teach you a lot, too (as long as they're nonviolent). I wouldn't necessarily recommend marrying one of them, as I did, but I don't think I'd be doing so well in my current relationship without getting it "wrong" a whole bunch of times first. And remember -- rejection is protection! I sometimes shudder to think about what I'd have to look at on the other side of the bed today if some of my more fervent unilateral crushes had actually "worked out."