...would the advice to stick it out for the sake of the child be the same? Somehow, I don't think so. I think Cary would have told the LW to detach with love and protect his son. Maybe even get the son into an Alateen program when it's age appropriate.

According to the Children of Hoarders website, children of hoarders share a lot of traits of children of alcoholics. And it would seem that hoarding, like alcoholism or other addictions, has both physical and emotional components.

I come from a family of "heavy clutterers" or perhaps hoarders (and a now-deceased alcoholic who was not a clutterer or hoarder). I fall into the clutterer category (and ACoA) and continually work on my own stuff (figuratively and literally).

The LW and his son need help in dealing with their spouse/mother's hoarding. Perhaps a healthy start to their own recovery would be to get out of that hellhole.

Warren's thoughtful letter cuts to the core of the issue, although one could play a semantic game with his choice to NOT label the issue one of addiction whilst then noting that addictive behavior (substance abuse issues) crops up frequently with individuals sustaining this behavior. I would prefer to sidestep the issue as to whether this is a disease, disorder or addiction; I note the same dialogue rages full-bore in relation to alchoholism, and the resolution of that debate hardly hastens the specific solution to the individual abusing booze - or their family. That said, the woman in question clearly has a clutter problem combined with a series of other issues, including, obviously, a low self-esteem, so readily presented with her repeated attacks on her husband during his "down time".

This woman does need skilled therapeutic intervention by someone who knows what she is doing;a female therapist is warrented if only to "box" in the wife's obvious passive aggression about her issue. And - in addition to dealing with the modification of behavior, she clearly needs some therapeutic support for other elements of her life.

However, that's easy to say, this gentleman needs to say it. This is where the parallel between her behavior and the behavior of an alky or a druggie comes into play (regardless of "disorder" vs "addiction" vs "disease" discussion). It's time to define crisp, clear, tough boundaries, and then adhere to them. She either goes into appropriate therapy, or he walks, taking the kid with him. He needs to lay the groundwork very, very carefully, having located at least one acceptable therapist in advance, and also having prepared himself for the very real possibility that this woman will not adhere to an interventional plan. He needs, in other words, to 'lawyer up', in the process determining exactly what his choices are for the best course of action for him and their child.

After that groundwork is laid, he needs to define exactly how he feels and provide her with the two basic options - either she adheres to a course of remediative therapy, or he walks. By now, the middle ground has been beaten into a pulp, she has been a recidivist, and there is now probably precious little room for true dialogue; the "either/or" message may be the only way to get through to this woman that she has a choice between her child and her stacks of paper.

I would note that there is a "Clutters Anonymous" 12-step program out there; I have no idea what their network of groups might be. However, sitting in a room full of other folks with precisely the same issue is riviting, and removes her sense of uniqueness that she may attach to her behavior. And, I would note that, disorder or disease, rarely is there a simple single generating/causitive force; this woman needs to tease out all of the reasons why she does this. Some may be biochemical, some may be insecurity, some may be patterned behavior. Like any train wreck, which is what this woman has built for a life, there is rarely a single simple driving force.

And - kudos to this guy for pulling his life together and creating the semblance of a structured home life for their child. To do so in the face of his wife's general hostility is remarkable. Tough enough to make a go of it in general, tougher to rebuild your life when you're being attacked on the home front whilst down.

the child of a hoarder who extols the lack of problems he/she had growing up has also grown up to become one. Almost all of us are critical of our parents for some reason or another, and it seems like piles of crap everywhere, with little walking paths providing relief, would do it. Are we hearing from a second-generation (or third? or fourth?) hoarder who is in denial, as well?

And I don't think Cary is reinforcing the status quo with his advice, as if we should all join the Stepfords; when my house is a mess (and I don't mean a little dust on the furniture or a few dishes in the sink-- I'm talking about a MESS), I feel overwhelmed, uncreative, and powerless. It's not about pleasing other people who may or may not drop by-- it's about feeling comfortable in my own space. It's about finding joy in my interaction with the things I have decided to keep in my house, those things that I find worthy of sharing my space.

Yes, one might choose to live as a hoarder. But I think Cary is hoping the LW and his family may one day experience the real human pleasure of enjoying one's own home.

One word:

Arson

Exactly. Any normal, sane person who's ever been married to a compulsive spender/hoarder can tell you that this is a devastating condition to live alongside. Absolutely devastating. Nothing ... from your credit cards, checkbook, cash to your home, peace, time belongs to you. It all belongs to the hoarder -- someone who is a "taker" from the word go. If the LW's spouse is saying, "You're two men ganging up on me," then there's no help. Trust me. Bail out. Your son will be better off for it, to see that you solve problems as an adult, rather than (literally) wallow in them.