Hey buddy, I can feel your pain! Don't we wish us men can say we quit our jobs because we feel like it? I sense a plot here, when she says she only shaves when she feels like it!! Basically, she is not giving a damn about you. And don't let her turn it around and make you do things for her as she use her shaving again as a bargaining tool. I am telling you not to try and convince her since the moment you do, she will have the upperhand. Women in this society have such an inflated sense of entitlement. Buddy, you need to be firm. It is how you approach the problem. If you say that it wouldn't hurt your marriage then she wouldn't listen up. The problem also is that society has put a blame on men for being too shallow! This put men into a situation where men can't voice to their intimates about their own needs but only cater to all women's needs.

What are the thoughts from women that men are starting to shave their legs and whatnots.I'd like to hear from women on their thoughts about this.And yes I do shave my legs and am not gay.I just like the look and thats all

I agree that her legs are her legs.How about shaving your legs,then see what she thinks.You might agree that its a chore to shave her legs everyday.I do shave mine everyday or at least did til I started getting them lasered.I do that for the look only and they do feel good when its warm outside when wearing shorts.Ask her if she would like to get her legs lasered.Its not that expensive.Or you might want to help her shave her legs.

<<Seriously though, men like this are on the way out. In another generation they will be extinct.>>

Actually, more and more men are adapting noname's stance since feminism has made it clear it intends to destroy men.

<<And as for the intractabiilty of your physical standards: I'm pretty sure that if you saw Donald Trump, Leo DiCaprio, George Clooney and Johnny Depp parading down the street with "fat haus fraus" [sic] on their arms, you'd want one of your own so fast your head would spin (both of them).>>

That is beyond absurd. We would call him a dumbass, or we would say it was because she had him by the cojones and he was trapped, or else it is truly love and good luck to him.

but no way in hell would we ever decide our own thoughts and judgements were irrational.

women are really clueless, aren't they

not to mention fair, balanced, seeking only "equality" etc. should make any demands men make that women be/look like/perform like porn stars (in the unlikely event that those demands are really made) seem like a piece of cake by comparison.

Had a lot of time on my hands today, so I decided to follow the thread all the way from the beginning. No Name Given--I salute you! You go from not having any children and not being married in the early posts, to being divorced with sole custody of your two sons by the late posts. Good trick!

Yes, I believe that you've hit on the exact cause of the problem. The problem derives from various media, including the Internet (as you stated), where women who fit certain standards of beauty, youth, firmness, and grooming are the norm. The Internet, as a broad category, overlaps with printed images and porn videos. Some (IMO, way too many) men have become so conditioned to the images and sex acts that they see in these media that they feel "cheated" if they have to "settle" for anything else. Please forgive me for being so frank (and downright "gross"), but it goes way beyond Brazilian waxes, m'dear! We gals are expected to have pretty, neat-looking little coochies, as well. --Which means plastic surgery on our labia if we don't conform to THAT "looks standard." It also means being a--as "my cousin Howie" likes to say--a "three input girl" and gladly receiving the sort of "facials" that one does not get in a beauty salon, if you get my meaning.

I also don't think that it makes me a "man hater" if I laugh in their self-centered faces when they express anger and disappointment that I don't aspire to be just like their favorite porn star in the bedroom. It only means that I've come to despise THAT sort of man.

I'd be interest to hear if this is really standard anywhere. Heavy black leg hair is another matter.

I am deliriously happy to shave my legs, keep in shape, dye my hair, do my nails, wear long hair that has to be conditioned and a hairstyle that takes a lot of upkeep, and so many other things but I tried waxing "there" for about two years and it was horrible. I am not that hairy but I had so many ingrown hairs when I waxed "there" ...my gyno told me to stop. I am a very fastidious and finicky person (yes I am the fastidious neurotic who wrote earlier) Waxing "there" just did NOT work for me.

The reason I am blathering about this on this site is... OK shaving my legs is not much trouble. Shaving bikini area No problem! The problem is not my lack of willingness to accommodate as far as things that seem pretty much normal and don't take my ENTIRE day or give me boils (sorry to be gross!)

The problem for me is the things that seem to have become de rigeur keep ratcheting up and up and up. I can understand men's consternation that the things many women seem willing to do seem to be ratcheting down and down and down...but honestly the things that seem to be considered "de rigeur" for women to be marginally acceptable in the looks and sexiness dept. seem to be ratcheting up, up, up.

I shave to the extent the models in Robert Altman's "Pret A Porter" (there was a scene in that movie with a long line of nude models...check it out it's hilarious) well (blush) I do just like the women in that movie, which you can do by shaving, and today it's not enough anymore. But waxing "there" is exponentially more troublesome. I don't mind the pain. It's the after-effects. I'm a fastidious person, and I would have a very hard time explaining this in person, but hey this is the Internet, and no one knows who I am.

I am not a man-hater but I suppose I'd better explain up front to any man before we get serious, "I cannot wax, tried it, if I'm disgusting let's don't see each other anymore" because obviously, that's the most important thing in a relationship! I agree grooming is important, and have no intention of letting myself go, but what's next to become de rigeur? Leg implants to make me taller like in (Oh, what was that movie?) Or cheekbone and chin implants like professional models get?

Shaving doesn't take much time at all. Waxing is exponentially more difficult. I read about some people who do it on a special occasion...fine. I'd do that but I would feel horrible if I were considered repulsive the rest of the time while waiting for the next wax. Well guess what? Salon has had an article on this before. Porn stars don't wax because it's more troublesome than shaving. They shave right before the photo shoot. But I feel that we normal women who are trying our best, are now expected to match the pornstar fantasy (which itself isn't even real) or we're considered disgusting.

It's not very motivating to be considered disgusting the harder you try. I sound like you-know-who, and I probably am in the same boat just by the fact I'm posting on this thread about this...but some of us who do try our best, our best still isn't good enough these days. I think the look that was on the models in "Pret A Porter" is well-groomed and looks good, but it's no longer good enough anymore, only the plucked chicken look will do and anything less is disgusting. What's driving that? I see very few plucked chickens in the locker room by the way. I don't think I've ever seen ONE plucked chicken in the locker room. I only seem to see them on the Internet? But then, I don't live on the coasts. Perhaps some women who live on the coasts can report how many plucked chickens they are seeing in the locker room?