A lot of ordinary citizens can be stupid fucks, no question about it- but, this doesn't mean ANYONE is capable of ANYTHING.

I didn't say that.

What I did say is that a lot of ordinary-looking people can do or even have done some really awful stuff. You can't tell by looking. You can't even tell by hanging out with them for a while.

The only people who knew what our local pedophile was up to were those directly involved, all of whom had a strong motive to keep their mouths shut tight. Most of the parents were clueless, and even those who had an inkling had nothing concrete to take to the police.

Rapists don't have signs over their heads.

When you get into situations like the Balkans in the 90s, you find out what people are really capable of, what they'll do if they can get away with it. When there are no external checks on behavior, or when normally "morally wrong" behavior becomes rewarded, is when the rubber hits the road. How people behave when things are quiet and the rule of law is more or less in place is no indication of character on this kind of thing.

A lot of ordinary citizens can be stupid fucks, no question about it- but, this doesn't mean ANYONE is capable of ANYTHING.

I am no Republican but these types of movies have to have some sort of effect on some people that is not lets say-mentally healthy.

-- NJ Dem

Christ, you could be an associate pastor at your local Baptist church.

I am sick of movies like this. No I do not expect every movie to fearture the Smurfs singing & dancing. Yet I think that these movies do allow for a type of violence against women to be seen as some sort of normal expression in the minds of some men. Are readers aware of the the tremendous explosion where many women are sold into sexual slavery? Are readers aware that rape against women is at epidemic levels? Why is that so many of these movies have to degrade women? Horror movies from years past dove into those dark corners w/o the sexual perversion and degradation. I am no Republican but these types of movies have to have some sort of effect on some people that is not lets say-mentally healthy.

It has pointed out that we receive energy from all types of sources including our entertainment. It seems to me that this movie is negative energy and quite simply the product at least of an hostile & immature mindset.

I've never even met a rapist

You cannot be sure that your entire circle of friends and acquaintances is free of someone who has committed an act considered to be rape under the law. They just weren't ratted out. The fact that you don't know a convicted rapist doesn't mean that you don't know a rapist.

You definitely know a rape victim. Probably more than one.

It's too common of a crime for you to dodge entirely.

It was my dubious privilege to have lived next door to a pedophile as a child. Believe me when I say he was otherwise a great guy. It's part of their camouflage. He had a wife and kids, a job, the whole nine yards. Not a single thing taught in Scary People Awareness Week would have pegged this man, in spite of the fact that he had dozens of victims over what was approximately a 20-year time period. None of those children were random playground pick-ups. They were all the children of friends or family members.

As far as what normal people will do, check out Darfur, or the Balkans in the mid-90s. In both cases, many otherwise ordinary citizens committed multiple rapes.

Sex with zombies usually does not end well.

-- DurianJoe

I wouldn't be hitting it- that's for goddamn sure.

Well, get uncomfortable. Most rapists are just your garden-variety entitled dickheads. Not psychopaths. Your friends and neighbors. They have families and friends like you, who never ever stop to think that normal people could do something so awful. But they do, all the time.

So get fucking uncomfortable.

-- Dorothy Parker

Don't be such an angst-ridden asshole spouting reactionary bullshit. I've never even met a rapist and you have zero goddamn business throwing my friends and neighbors into the mixture.

You haven't a remote clue what kind of folks make up the planet if you assume just ANYONE normal is capable of rape.

That is, unless in your distorted pinhole version of the world you include ALL sexual activity.

Damn, what a fucked up image of reality. Are you even capable of male companionship with that level of comprehension?

I think what is more important is that I am mature,

Mature? Intelligence and clear-thinking coupled is maturity at any age.

I was raised to care about other people, and our society has generally frowned upon torturing people for amusement. That last point is very important: impressionable young minds are not likely to be influenced by "Hostel" to torture people for fun, even if the movie portrayed the torturers as heroes, because our society does not accept torture as legitimate entertainment.

If by 'legitimate entertainment' you mean actual torture performed in the backyard to real, shrieking humans I couldn't agree more. And, this is exactly the case for rape. No one in society would accept actual rape as 'legitimate entertainment'.

WHICH is exactly WHY killing, torture, mutilation, and the occasional rape are perfectly acceptable forms of imagination entertainment in film, literature, and art.

Well, that is, unless you are these folks (first section):

http://www.tinynibbles.com/blogarchives/2009/07/a-tale-of-two-obcenity-trial-outcomes.html#comments

Fictional killings seem to be the primary form of extreme titillation for the broadest cross-section of society.

Emulating Spock is pretty much exactly NOT what I am referring to here when I reject the notion that popular culture is an influential powerhouse that shapes society.

Then what exactly ARE you referring to? Moreover, if you were not referring to that, perhaps you should consider it. Little boys grow up emulating their movie heroes, and if those heroes are the kinds of macho dicks who punch first and talk later, kids will emulate them, especially in a nation like the USA where a man is still judged by how willing he is to "kick ass," and intellectualism is often mocked.

Why should I consider it? There is nothing subtle or powerful about transient emulation. Kids that grow up playing cowboys and watching the Lone Ranger will not end up on the range.

Boys and girls, both, depending on their personalities and family factors will exhibit normal tendencies that may lean occasionally violent (in relation to their age)- no matter what they view or watch.

Were children raised before television and 'corruptible' forms of media less-inclined to naughtiness or violence? No.

This is where we have our biggest difference: not that racist or homophobic or sexist art reflects what already exists in an individual or culture, which we both agree on, but that it also serves to reinforce what exists, to legitimize and justify it. I am astounded that you continue to overlook that second half of the equation.

Blame is a fuzzy and nebulous process. I am apprehensive of attempts to blame human expression for social ills. The natural progression for this type of thought process is one that leads to control, suppression and even censorship.

Your logic is well-presented but is entirely too conclusive for me.

The second half I refuse to cede and that vexes you is the section eerily similar to religious morality that vaunts its superior judgments into such a lofty state that it rejects personal decision and favors a system that levies what is and is not a slippery slope leading to man's ultimate spiritual destruction.

In your case, the slippery slopes of offensive human expression would lead to social degradation.

I respect your opinion but I'm not at all convinced that your logic is sound.

As for "Dead Girl," unless I am convinced by critics and others that it is lousy altogether, or a celebration of women-hating, I intend to see it.

I could care less how it is ultimately rated or if it celebrates women-hating. I will be changed not a single whit by watching it. The purpose is entertainment and, perhaps, a morsel or two of something to ponder.