If wearing the burqa is a voluntary choice for Muslim women and something they feel strongly about, either personally or religiously, I have a hard time arguing with that. If it's a behavior or "choice" that's forced on them, that opens a whole different issue. But I will say, when I see a woman in a burqa, it makes me extremely uncomfortable, I don't like it and it bothers me a lot because it does remind me of a prison, and it actually gives me pause when I see it because you don't really know who's under there; so, in a way, I can sympathize with Sarkozy's remarks. I think both sides have merit.

that it is a ban on women's freedom to prevent them from wearing the burqa assumes that they are free to choose not to wear it.

or maybe they do, there's a number of variations of burqas, chador, and abaya from the most shapeless and eyeless Afghan type burqas to more open cloaks.

But the point is that these types of garments are not the norm for the vast majority of the international Muslim community. You would be hard-pressed to pick out these types of garments in a street photo from Iran or Pakistan.

Could you strike a few blows for men not having to wear coats and ties all the time?

"If you started outlawing perceived symbols of sartorial subjugation, there would be no end. What truly makes women prisoners is policing their bodies from the outside."

The burqa is not a "perceived symbol of sartorial subjugation", it is an ACTUAL instrument of subjugation. It's the difference between a picture of a fist and a punch in the nose. What makes women prisoners is IMPRISONING them. How obvious does it have to be?

When will western feminists get it? I think their minds are clouded because they are only fighting symbolic obscles themselves, not real obstacles. Western women are behind men only in percentages, 80 cents on the dollar, numbers of representatives, CEOs, etc. Middle eastern women are actually maimed, killed, punished, for doing things western feminists take for granted. In France, and everywhere else, if you harm a woman, if you force a woman to wear a burqa, you should go to jail. I can't believe we're even discussing this.

pray tell, do you propose for the French government to determine whether an "abusive" husband is "forcing" his wife to don the burqa and mouth religiousity or if a "devout and submissive" wife is merely practicing her conscience and religion as she sees fit?

Perhaps Sarkozy can sit in the marital home and watch the couple's interactions, and probe into the brainwashed females' brains to determine the level of "voluntariness" found within.

Your idea of "punishing" these "abusive" husbands while allowing those free-spirited burqa-donning Muslim women to practice as they see fit is untenable.

Either you go the route that Sarkozy is exploring, by banning the public burqa, or you go the route that the United States does, and don't inquire into the matter as long as there is no physical assault or kidnapping on the man's part.

By the way, the burqa is not a "veil." We're not talking about a hijab or even an abaya, which is commonly confused with the burqa, we're talking about a walking body-bag. Only the most oppressive of Islamic sects and communities mandate the burqa for women. Not even Saudi Arabian women commonly wear the burqa.

If a woman decides to dress modestly of her own accord, she can easily do it without wearing a burqa.

veil is a choice and one they prefer over the western garb of women, which they feel sexualizes women for a man's gaze

Yes, most women didn't want the vote back then. Oppression is internalized when you are immersed in a culture that sees it as a natural thing. Black people were seggregated for centuries of years and only began to protest in the sixties.

A lot of African women defend the ablation of clitoris too. And slavery has been completely popular in the past.

The thing that have been lost is the idea that any immigrant that is living in a culture has to adapt to the basic ideas of this culture. They do it but we don't do it.

So there can be burkas and oppression, but we look the other side because the women are not Western.

I agree with Elydog. Let's cover the men with burkas so they are not sexualized for a woman's gaze.

who say that wearing both a burqa and/or veil is a choice and one they prefer over the western garb of women, which they feel sexualizes women for a man's gaze. For example, they'd say, high heels are proven to cause back, feet and knee problems but British (I interviewed them in London for a story) women wore them to be attractive to men.

I don't necessarily agree that this is so (other than the fact that high heels can cause orthopedic problems), but I went in having very strong feelings about how their dress oppressed them and came out being not quite so sure.

What is voluntary about a culture that accuses women who don't wear it of being 'loose women' or 'encouraging adultry' or of 'undermining marriage' or 'encouraging rape' or any number of idiotic things? I don't think it should be legally banned, but I think it should be a target of feminists. It is sad to see old women from Somalia loaded down with these ridiculous cloaks. Voluntary? Ha. It will be voluntary when NOT wearing the burqa is possible and women don't get tormented or isolated.

It obscures the vision, it is hot, it keeps women from physical activities, it keeps Vitamin D from getting to the skin, it encourages a sameness of style that is more akin to a prision, etc. Men are not encouraged to wear the burqa - why should women be? Double standard, cultural relativism, and all that - from 'feminists.'

Walking covered as a ghost lest men are excited for seeing your face is definitively NOT oppression.

Of course, if behind this sheet, there was an American women would be an oppression. But women of other cultures are not oppressed. Other cultures are an example of feminism while killing women because they reject arranged marriages.

Unlike these feminist cultures, male-dominated Western culture oppresses women because there is one female restroom for each male restroom (This was a Salon's opinion, not mine).

Seeing the world through a grid through you can barely see is only a cool fashion for women of inferior races.

Of course, for some women is a free decision to wear a burka. Some women also want to live with the man that beats them on a regular basis. This is not domestic violence, it is another lifestyle. They are free of wanting someone to beat them. Their body, their choice. Their dress, their burka, their choice.

But if you are a woman and you go to Saudi Arabia, you would be forced to wear a veil (not a burka). Some other countries defend their culture. Only Western culture has to make allowance for the basic values of their culture: for example, considering women as human beings.

In British India, it was usual for women to be burnt when her husband died. British authorities punished that. When Indian people said "It is a custom of ours", British authorities repplied "We have other customs. We hang every man who kills a woman". Back then, they know that culture was not an alibi to violate basic human rights. Not anymore.