I notice that at no place does Tracey indicate any disapproval for the Frenchwoman who killed three of her own newborns. Any denial at play here?

happy that I live in a country were a woman can choose to kill her child, and that women like Clark-Flory can make a living by crying day-in-day-out how wonderful it is.

Choice use to be “Are we going to try for a baby”. But now is “Oh shit, I got pregnant. No prob., I’ll just kill it”.

In case you are wondering. I practiced birth control until I was ready to have a child. It's called responsibility.

And to echo Petronius, I don't see where Ms. Clark-Flory has denounced Stalin. Are you FOR mass starvation, Ms. Clark-Flory?

Of course, you could make up for that by building a nice cross for 63debra, so she can climb up on it when her moral superiority isn't universally acknowledged.

See, I'm being helpful.

(Removes tongue from cheek)

I have stopped reading his column long ago. When I was pregnant, the thing in my belly was an embryo, then a fetus; what was born was a human child. It's not denial, it's science. I've seen embryos and feti on ultrasound and they are not babies, whatever Saletan and anyone else thinks.

I had three much wanted children, and I would have an abortion if I got pregnant again now: I am too old and too busy to care for another child. And it could happen, since I am using contraceptives but no contraceptive is 100% perfect. I'd rather not get pregnant, not because I believe there is anything immoral about an early abortion but because it would be dangerous for my health (although less so than a term pregnancy).

The poor woman who killed her children is obviously sick (NB: both in France and in South Korea she could have had an early abortion) although I must admit I'm kind of puzzled about her husband, family and friends - how is it possible that nobody noticed? Weird.

Excellent point, 63debra. I too am grateful that we live in an age when birth control is 100% effective, widely accessible, and financially viable for all people. Hats off to you for never getting pregnant without wanting to, an option that all women everywhere could enjoy if they were only "responsible" enough.

On a different note, though, what country's policy were you hoping we would invoke when it comes to our reproductive rights? Are you under the impression that the USA is anomalous among developed countries? http://www.womenonwaves.org/attachment-682-en.html I think I'm going to pass on channeling Afghanistan, Haiti, Columbia, and the DRC when it comes to deciding what medical procedures we allow women.

Hmmm. . . in my unofficial "study" I note that women I know say, "I'm pregnant, and I'M 6 weeks along." Or, "I'm at 12 weeks." Or "We're (meaning partner and self) in the second trimester, and so excited."

In other words, without thinking, many women (including myself) used terminology that was self-referential. Maybe because it is our bodies?

I ate some farm fresh eggs that were almost surely fertilized. Does that mean I actually had chicken for breakfast?

We don't call a fetus a baby because biologically they have not yet developed into one. Just because some people believe that a fertilized egg is a full-blown person, does not make it a fact. For example the Catholic Church teaches that at conception God infuses a soul into the egg - hardly a provable, scientific fact. People have every right to believe this, but not to force the rest of us to agree with their faith-based assertion.

My parents were devote Catholics who accepted the Church's teaching on abortion, yet did not think it should be illegal because they understood their position was grounded in their faith, not science. It is time - long past, actually - that pro choice people make this clear. Believing that abortion should be legal does not mean you believe in murder.

We call him Ziggy. Isn't he cute? http://encarta.msn.com/media_461533430/zygote.html

"Words like "embryo" and "fetus" allow for dissociation from their growing baby"

Being a man, I can't obviously speak for women, but I'm going to go out on limb and say under normal circumstances not too much, least of all semantics, can disassociate a women from the baby growing in their body. And to think that it could demonstrates not only a profound insensitivity but an embarrassing lack of understanding of women in general.

Causes infanticide. Literally. They do something bat-sht crazy on the right, and then accuse the left of doing the exact thing so their idiocy can't be noticed, because we're too busy defending ourselves.

Classic tactic. Except the Left always takes it lying down, and fights fair and reasonably instead of the way they fight, so they always win.

I'm a guy, straight but not a father, so it's all kind of abstracted for me.

The Saletan column logo, though, (just looked) is someone holding his own head away from his shoulders to look back on himself. Not a great piece of either design or draftsmanship, to be sure, but not a contorted, bent human with whatever a "hip-hand" might be, either.

thanks for the nice lord saletan takedown. i appreciate it when broadsheet articles are free of the "i'm a hip young lady!" language that it sometimes slips into. more credibility this way! less anne hathaway in devil wears prada ;)

...strikes again. He'll likely get a well-deserved "wanker of the day" citation from a few blogs and web sites.

I'm not sure what Lord Saletan's real issue is, but on this issue, he's simply not worth the ink (or pixels) it takes to publish his...stuff.

When the crown of the head emerges from the birth canal or does the last part of the last toe have to emerge before the "fetus" turns into a "baby"? Oh, wait, maybe it is when the baby is all the way out and the nurse is holding it and the doctor (or the father as it happens sometimes) cuts the umbilical cord. Is it at that point that the "fetus" turns into a "baby"?

I get confused with both positions - the far right says that the baby gets it's soul at conception, and the far left says that the fetus does not turn into a baby until I guess it emerges from the womb, is placed in a crib, and has it's first shit.

Here's the deal - neither side is protected by the constitution that I can see. This whole abortion mess was created by a bunch of politicians who don't have the guts to vote on this on a state by state or local basis. This issue should be decided like alot of laws - let the local voters decide if abortion does or does not conform to their local mores and views.

This is all insane.