Ahhhh, sorry OT but the font size is very small now and it doesn't change when I increase it on Firefox. Is there somewhere on screen I can change it that I haven't found yet?

If you're upset at the treatment of women at frat houses, why don't you try partying with SnoopDogg's posse...

Try holding down the control key while using the mouse scrolling ball or the + key.

That's Elephantmann ladies and gentlemen! Intellectually and morally bankrupt! No valid arguments to make, just flatulance and fury signifying nothing. Step right this way! The GOP carnival never closes!

what with the using alcohol to help them get laid, and with the talking about their sexual conquests with their same-sex peers, and with the looking to do freaky things during one-night-stands. Why, back in my day things were different.

Except....wait a second...

No, they weren't. Nor did you need to be in a Fraternity to behave this way. Hard to believe, but I've heard that people who never even WENT TO COLLEGE sometimes did the same things. And I also, hard as it is to believe, think there was a popular show on ... not TV, but HBO, I think ... which advanced the preposterous notion that women often engage in the same behavior, even when they are over 30 and not in a Fraternity at all!!! Imagine....

When I was in grade-high school, I did an academic competition that had it's state competitino at the biggest state university... during Greek Week. I've never been more horrified. Taking a bunch of kid dorks through that made sure we'd never go to that school, lol.

Really, I don't know of many frats that DON'T totally resemble what's talked about here, and that quote from NJ. I mean, but there are different types of organizations. "Frats" are for dumb, homophobic guys to date rape girls willing to put themselves in danger of being date raped by going to their parties or hanging out with those guys (NOT that it's the girls' fault, but there's risk in stepping into those houses).

Then there are professional fraternaties. I think the worst I ever saw Phi Mu Alpha (the undergrad music frat version of Mu Phi Epsilon, the prfessional group) do, at my state grad school, was auction off control of one of the brother's hair and beard, to raise money to buy instruments for city schools (awesome). another time it was a chance to throw a pie in the face of the dean of the orchestral department.

They were actually asked not to have a date auction anymore by SAI (the sorority version), and they listened.

AEPi (the jewish Fraternity) is different at different campuses, but I can't say I've ever heard of the type of stuff there that goes on in general social 'Frats'... maybe Jewish guys are more ok with gays/aren't as socialized to be terrified of being seen as gay? I have seen some insane parties at AEPi houses, but nothing that made me fear that someone was going to be sexually assaulted (regret drunkenly doing something, maybe, but that's very different, especially if both people are drunk).

I know at Brown they decided there couldn't be any Frat houses on campus, I think the same at Yale. At least at Brown, it cut down considerably on on-campus injuries and arressts (yes, stuff even happens at ivy league schools). They do have co-ed society houses at Brown, but I think they're on sides of the street that are technically off campus.

Nothing creeps me out so much as "Frats". I'm sure some of them do good things, but I've never seen or heard about anything to contradict this general culture.

My house in the mid '90s wasn't like those described in this article. I think a lot of had to do with the fact that we didn't haze. I think that hazing degrades the people involved -- when you are basically torturing someone, even with their consent, it ups the ante for what you are capable of doing and anesthetizes you against inhumanity to others who may or may not be consenting. Probably also helped that we went to a very small college where you couldn't get away with trashing someone's reputation, much less gang rape. There definately was a lot of sexism and homophobia though. There were also some members who were quite progressive (one had a bumper sticker that said 'poverty is a form of violence'). Yeah, I'm pretty ambivalent about it now.

Gay sex was rampant in frat houses and frat parties were the least fun because they were the most restricted by campus overlords.

As a frequent, occasionally drunk, visitor. Maybe I was lucky, probably this book cherrypicked.

Oh well, I guess I"ll pour myself another glass of "grain alcohol"...

you don't know much about gay men

It's a funny thing, whenever someone prefaces something with "I'm not saying all X are Y" it is usually followed by "But gee there sure are a lot of Ys among those Xs"

So, essentially what we have is a very broad accusation against a very diverse set of organizations.

In essence, Malarkey.

While I am sure there is a good deal of raucous behavior in many fraternal organizations across the country (sororital organizations as well) to suggest that many, or even most of this behavior stems from homophobia, mysogyny and the harboring of rapists would be laughable if it weren't so insulting.

As can and is done, quotes of certain people belonging to certain organizations can be used to impune the whole organization. In this case however we go one step further taking the words of one group or individual in a specific subset of organizations and applying these words or actions to all the various forms of that organization.

As always one can say they expect more from Salon or Broadsheet, but really who does expect more?

a member of a frat at the University of Kentucky in the late 80s. It wasn't anything like these Hobbesian nightmares described in the article. Just a social club, where 18-22 year-old kids away from home for the first time in their lives do what 18-22-year old kids everywhere do - drink, socialize with women, and generally put off growing up as long as possible. We also studied for classes, and played harmless ("TP their house!") pranks on the other frats. The worst thing I remember was having a bunch of football players (non-frat members) get drunk after yet another SEC loss and break into a frat, where they proceeded to beat a member up using a vacuum cleaner, an incident that led to a lot of creative mockery in the stands at the next week's SEC loss.

There was also an incident where an underaged young lady got very drunk at a frat party and had to have her stomach pumped. Don't try to tell me that this is an occurence that is somehow unique to the fraternity experience.