...[T]he sisters who are members believe they can ask questions. Like why can't I be a priest? Shouldn't LGBT folks have civil rights and be able to get married? What would Jesus want of us in these areas of life? And, finally, as these sisters traveled the world, they met Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and other Christians and came to believe that God was in all of us in ways that scare the skirts off the cardinals and popes.

Do you have any cites show that a significant number of nun are really thinking these thoughts? One wonders why, if they're really that open minded, they're still married to Jesus and haven't dumped him someone significantly less neglectful than He's proven to be.

That last line should read "[A]nd haven't dumped him for someone significantly less neglectful than He's proven to be."

And to think I used to be a proofreader. Sheesh.

They can keep the Church insulated from change only for so long until their version of Gorbachev comes along.

Gorbachev wasn't a fluke. He was Dubcek's roommate in law school.

Somewhere out there, a Catholic Gorbachev is waiting in the wings.

Nice to see some good PR for the Catholic sisters. Since moving into a predominantly Catholic neighborhood, I've gotten to be close friends with quite a few nuns. I've been surprised to find how savvy they are. They are a hidden treasure of the church hierarchy. Wonderful women.

Not that I'll be pushing my daughters to join the church, but if they choose life as a nun, I could see why and be very happy.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

If you, as a woman, dedicate your life to working for and proselytizing for an institution which is actively oppressing and marginalizing women, it seems a bit disingenuous to wonder why they don't treat you better.

I've never heard a black man complain about how he wasn't treated well after joining the KKK.

I had Sisters for teachers in in high school and most of them had a Masters or PhD in their area of study. The priest mostly taught us religion and their warped view of marriage and sex education.

It's time for the church to take a broader look. The 'men in skirts' should be asking how can we give these women more leadeship in the church. It's pretty obvious why they are losing women. They also lost a large amount of Catholics lay who were of early baby boomers,like me ,when they decided NOT to go ahead with most of Vatican 2. When I attend my high school reunions, more than half of the students from my graduating class have left the church.

Many convents are doing fine because their sisters came from wealthy families, or they had jobs where they got good SS that help support their retirement homes. Many however are struggling to survive.

1)No sex - In the past, that was fine, but society places a much, much higher value on sex (particularly with the widespread availability of contraception) than it used to. People have always had sex, but the emphasis on the importance of everyone being a "sexual being" has never been greater than now. Women don't want to "miss out".

2)Lack of altruism - Society is much more self-oriented today than in the past. Being a nun requires you to be selfLESS, which is frowned upon by society as a whole now.

...who not just question, but outright preach against key Catholic doctrine in hopes of getting it changed.

Historically speaking, they're called "Protestants."

Seriously--nuns (except for the cloistered ones) are highly visible representations of institutional Catholicism. At least in America, at least nowadays, nuns enter and stay in the convent of their own free will. There isn't a whole lot of murkiness surrounding official Catholic doctrine.

So why the big brouhaha over the Vatican saying, "If you want to be an official representative of institutional Catholicism, you have to play by its rules?"

Pretty much ALL religions require doctrinal fidelity of their monks/ nuns/ priests/ imams/ rabbis/ shamans/ etc. That's one of the reasons new religious movements form--Leader so-and-so either left or was forced out of the old religion over theological disputes.

(Also, nobody's burning anybody at the stake, Ms. Kissling.)

It's already gotten you pretty far, hasn't it?

"One wonders why, if they're really that open minded, they're still married to Jesus and haven't dumped him someone significantly less neglectful than He's proven to be."

This seems to be the consensus...but think about it, really.

Again: the average age of these women is close to 70, and they've probably been living more than half of their lives in the cloister, which means it's been forty years to never since they had a job, a bank account, or any personal possessions of any value. They don't have children.

Most of their friends on the outside, to the extent they have any, are probably members of their congregation. Most of their families are probably Catholic.

And you expect these women to...walk out of the church, and out onto the street, and then what? Move in with their fifty-year-old nieces and nephews, and get a job with no resume and no work experience (and no bank account and no assets and no references)?

A thirty-year-old nun might be able to walk away. For a sixty-year-old nun, it's not realistic. That's probably one reason why the average age is increasing.

what!?

Or, people just like to have sex, period (you haven't seen much Pasolini I suppose).

Women and men joined the convent/seminary for different reasons in previous generations. My parents were friends with several former priest and nun couples who had left their respective occupations and married. They were just as selfless, just now enriched with sexual and emotional companionship.

Some of the older ones were closeted lesbians, or just didn't want to be limited to getting married and having kids (when women had fewer options, this was a reasonable alternative). The ones who did survive until Vatican II were able to ditch the habits in favor of hiking boots and get their hands dirty while helping the poor.

As a kid, I was pretty close with some of these nuns, but to be honest I don't really relate to the ones who have only recently (in the last 20 years or so) chosen this path.