Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

36
Letters
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:00 AM

Act like a lady, think like a funny man

Steve Harvey's dating advice book for women is a runaway bestseller. How did male comedians become the new love gurus?

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM

Keeping it Simple

It's not that Steve Harvey (et. al.) have so much wisdom to impart. It's that they keep the message simple and direct for the many who just can't seem to take it in any other way. How many times have we watched our girlfriends act the fool over a guy? This is the audience the Steve Harveys are aiming for: the real to-the-end-give-them a 2nd, 3rd whatever chance and then are surprised when the guy behaves poorly AGAIN-girl. This group needs the "no-cookie rule." It may work where all else ( common sense?) fails.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:03 AM

Um, actually...

...the vast majority of men really will do anything for "the cookie," and it's your job to dole it out with extreme caution.

Look at the evolutionary pressures. Men reproduce most effectively by sleeping with as many women as possible. Ideally, the man also helps take care of one or more of the offspring generated by this wanton sexual behavior, but this isn't strictly necessary, just helpful in ensuring that the maximum number of kids survive to themselves reproduce.

Women, on the other hand, reproduce most effectively by being highly selective about which men they sleep with, both to ensure good genetic material and also to have the best possible chance that the man will contribute to the care of the offspring.

So basically, women really do have to set the rules, because men are operating under a biological imperative to sleep with any woman available. (That doesn't mean we can't resist this urge, when necessary, but it's rather difficult to do.)

No, I don't have any particular insight here. Sorry. If it makes you feel better, just wanting to sleep with any woman deemed attractive enough is not, on its own, sufficient to actually do so. For that, men have to learn a set of rules written by people (women) very different from themselves. (In other words, this ain't easy for men either.)

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:06 AM

Simple rules, simple people, simplification

Indeed it does seem sometimes like simple advice being given out there for people who just don't want to think too much about their relationships. Maybe it is a good thing, maybe not. I tend to be an enemy of simple answers -- although there are simple cases, I think these are surprising (and in need of explanation) rather than not. The world is complicated, and every case has individual features.

It is indeed dumbing down to think that men will do anything to get 'the cookie' and that women should just dole it out with extreme caution. I suppose there are people (men and women) who are at this level and who could probably relate meaningfully by following such rules. But the more I look around the more I think too many men and women are just too individual and complicated (in the good sense of the word).

Are men really simple? I'd put this one right up there with questions about "what women want" in my list of popular-culture facts that show we need more effective communication between -- and within -- the genders...

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:13 AM

"...isn't getting relationship tips from standup comedians a little like taking financial counsel from the homeless?"

Or perhaps it is like getting scientific analysis from the writers of Broadsheet.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:21 AM

Sigh....

"But how many more thousands of years are we going to blithely swallow the excuse that men will do anything for "the cookie," and it's our job to dole it out with extreme caution? "

Until you "get it". The fact that you continue to fight this simple and obvious bit of truth is why people can make money repeating it. Keep writing columns about how women and men are too complex and diverse for something so simple to apply and there will always be tens of thousands of people who keep making the same dumb relationship mistakes and can be helped by such a simple message.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:36 AM

Relationship Advice from a comic ...

... As a twice-divorced comic myself, I have one question ... why is ANYONE taking a book on dating written by a divorced comic with ANY level of seriousness? And why are we assuming that the fact it has sold a lot of copies is an indication its being read seriously?

Its a book by a comic ... I can almost guarantee you that it was written as a joke, from the first word to the last. Steve Harvey is doing material, in book form, and people are buying it because its funny.

But HE doesn't expect you to take it seriously, and if you do, you are part of the joke. Because ultimately, thats what the joke is all about ... the idea that ANYONE would take serious dating advice from a twice-divorced person "who spend 23 hours a day by themselves in crappy hotel rooms in the middle of nowhere, desperately waiting to go on stage to make lonely drunk people happy."

Harvey is a self-aware, professional comic. He KNOWS that its absurd for anyone to take serious dating advice from him, and frankly, if you do take him seriously, then you are specifically and directly part of the joke.

The idea of taking Harvey seriously on dating advice is as absurd as the idea of taking Dennis Leary seriously on raising special needs children. Then again, lots of people were part of THAT joke too, simply by missing the point of it so badly.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:08 PM

A Better Reading Suggestion

A better book to fill your mind would be Yes Means Yes: Visions of Female Sexual Power and a World Without Rape which strives to redefine how we value female sexuality. The authors want to take the discussion of female sexuality and rape beyond the "no means no" level. While their idea of ending rape is ovelry simplistic, their thoughts on the matter of how we view women, men and sexuality are very thought-provoking.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:29 PM

One thing I know about comics:

Unless their shtick is all physical comedy, they succeed because their comedy deals with unexpected insights on human nature.

We humans have a tendency to lose perspective on situations that we live day in and day out; comics seem to have a clearer view of the human condition, perhaps because they're always on the periphery of "normal" interactions.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:30 PM

Old Jokes Never Die

And they accuse women of playing dumb to get what they want.

The men-are-too-simple-to-be-held-accountable routine isn't just simplistic, it's stale. Tim Allen was playing this schtick in the 80's. I'll be on the lookout for Harvey's next bestseller - Airline Food is Terrible.

Most Active Letters Threads

740

The commendably missing element from Obama's speech

There was no pretense that human rights is our goal, or the likely outcome, in escalating the war
688

Obama's exceedingly familiar justifications for escalation

The "new" approach to Afghanistan touted by White House officials seems quite old
370

America's regression

It's almost impossible to find a nation with as many torture advocates as the U.S. has.
329

Yes, it's Obama's war now

An uninspiring speech sells a dubious policy, but progressives who feel betrayed have only themselves to blame
326

Do Obama officials know what his Afghanistan plan is?

What explains the completely contradictory statements from key aides on a central plank of the war strategy?

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon