@ likelife:

Like I said before; you have significant and serious issues. Good luck with that. I refuse to engage anymore.

@ Kryptogal:

I've read some of your previous posts. You are supposedly conventionally attractive. Which also means that you have probably gotten everything you want sexually. That must be great and I do not begrudge you that.

But you're right - not everyone is destined to be the Alpha Male. In fact, most men are destined to be Beta Males. The beauty of being born in the 20th century means though, with enough talent, smarts, passion and yes - burning determination and self-discipline, you can succeed enough to enjoy the perks of Alpha male success.

One of those perks is a better and hopefully wider selection of mate(s).

Men have always been motivated by this. Please see Bonaparte, Napoleon for a larger than life example. Other examples include any number of Bankers, Film Directors, US Senators and Presidents.

Being an asshole is just a very basic and low level way of convincing certain women that you are an alpha male.

Typically in human societies the alpha just gets first choice. Even among primates it isn't unknown for females to "cheat" with a beta out of the alpha's sight. But anyway acting angry and aggressive is how a beta becomes an alpha.

Most men will model behavior that women respond to. If women pick the guys that dance the best - most will become good dancers. If they pick the a-holes - most will act more like an a-hole. Your wish is our command.

If the sole criteria by which a male is determined to be alpha is how many women he gets, then all is lost ANYWAY.

But no, many alpha males are TAUGHT, by women around them, to become 'nice' people.

So many of the beta males protest that it isn't their fault they're angry about not getting sex with the hottest women

Thus, I am not angry that I cannot or can get some theoretical hot woman, but that I was deliberately short circuited in my youth by FALSE messages by the women around me, women who could not think straight themselves and admit to themselves that indeed they are after assholes who play nice rather than after nice men themselves.

Had I been told the truth up front by the women, I would not have felt slighted and my youth lost to pining for sex from women who could not stand the sight of another 'nice guy'.

NOW is a different story. I get attention from some of the women I want (of course you cannot woo all of them), even many of them the beautiful hot ones.

So women lie. boo hoo. They are dishonest about their motives. They do as they please and try to force men to not have the same things. AND they fought tooth and nail to prevent me from learning how to ACT like a charming asshole.

Not all musicians are bad... as long as she wasn't dating any tenors, conductors, or cellists, she's probably fine ;)

So says Clark-Flory.

I agree! You'll be my equals, ladies, when the dead in Iraq are 2000 men & 2000 women, not 4000+ men and 33 women. You'll be "equal" when the men in your lives have exactly the same reproductive choices that you enjoy, or can decide to quit their shitty job and expect that you'll support them. You'll be equal when they can to divorce you and keep their kids, and when you're lucky to see your children 4 days a month. When either you come up with the child support or go to jail. You'll be equal when I see females picking up my trash, unclogging my toilet, or doing any other dangerous, filthy, low status, "loser" job, not because its "fulfilling" but because without the money it furnishes you'll fall from "loser" to nothing at all.

"Let's not make this a war between the sexes?"

Seriously?? It's bout 40 years late for that, and a laughably offensive statement coming from a snide, self-serving, relentlessly gender warrior like Clark-Flory.

And I work tirelessly on my career... the thought of getting desirable sex from it never crossed my mind.

Maybe that is because you are a woman? And you do not have to do anything to attract a man? Maybe men HAVE to do these things to get a woman?

The alternative, which you so despise, is for men to become better at wooing women without the men having any other talents than to woo women.

So which is it? Should we men all just shoot ourselves in the head?

Do I meet people I love dearly beacuse of our shared passion and expreience? sure. But that rarely has anything to do with anything sexual. I work on my career because it's my passion and my soul and my life (and has been for 18 of my 25 years). If someone offered me tons of sex with desirable guys for doing something else, I'd laugh in their face.

Who said guys do things to get women? If I love surfing and I become a good surfer, the women gravitate to me. what is the problem? I am still doing what I want.

Meaningless sex - whatever. We all mature at different rates. But the whole, "I make money so I can bang hot chicks, screw their personalities" thing is REALLY, well, unattractive.

I actually WAS writing tongue in cheek because (A) I don't believe we are chimps; and (B) I think this ongoing Broadsheet argument is mostly BS anyway.

First of all, by age 30, the vast majority of Americans are settled down with someone who holds roughly the same level of attractiveness, education, intelligence, age, and income-producing potential. So all this crap about women going for old guys with money and men for hot bimbos is mostly not true. Those are outliers. I work with a bunch of rich old guys and not one of them has a hot, young girlfriend or wife. They have women their age. And the vast majority of men are not in fact angry at women or bewildered by dating. And the vast majority of people are not engaging in some kind of deliberate, ruthless, "Darwinian" dating game.

In fact, I don't know any people like that in real life. I just read them posting on the internet. So it clearly isn't that common. It's just common among the type of people who like to post things online.

In other words, we're all arguing about a false phenomenon. I don't even believe that most people end up "with the best mate they can acquire." Because I know tons of people who could get someone much better-looking/rich/intelligent than who they're with. But people fall in love with other people for dumb reasons all the time. And THAT's why I told everyone to relax. Yes there is an avoidable social hierarchy, but we also have the ability (unlike animals) to both change ourselves for the better and to treat others in better ways than a purely self-interested animal might.