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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
in what a middle class person in an advanced country would consider the modern world.
and of course biology isn't everything, but as every woman who has tried to lose weight knows, it is not nothing, either.
The community, as it were, is providing the nice guys who you'd like to meet an avenue to make this happen.
No, it is not.
I don't want to meet a man who's idea of being a nice guy is sucking up to hot chicks in order to get into their pants. I don't want men who think being a nice guy is befriending a hot chick with the ultimate end of making her obligated to have sex with him because he was "such a nice guy and helped her out so much". End of story.
What the women here are trying to tell you is that there's a whole world out there full of women who are, for the most part, invisible to you and who's needs in relationships are completely different from what you're describing in the women you know. However, I'm no longer convinced that it's in anyone's best interests for you to know that, including that of the women trying to tell you.
Go back to HCwDB and meditate on it, really give it some time. Do you want the kind of women on their arms? Then be that kind of man. And you're right, being nice, respectful, clean-cut and with a moderate income is not going to get you Maxim-quality women. This is not feminism's fault, nor is the fault of women in general. You're catering to the tastes of a specific subset of the population. That's all.
Also, don't expect it to work on any random woman who catches your eye. My own version of "doing something" in this situation is to shut down, sharply and firmly, any Community-style tactics that get used on me. Believe it or not, it doesn't work on all women, at the very least because not all women are just dying to be hit up for a phone number by a total stranger. Yes, the attempt itself makes you look like a douche, no matter who's method you're using.
There are also a large number of us who still believe that the library is for checking out books, the grocery store is for shopping, and the bar at Happy Hour is for trying to hook up. If you want a phone number, go there. If you can't get the phone number of the woman you want because she doesn't go to the club, bringing the club to her is not the answer.
I'd like to know the answer to that too, it certainly seems like it isn't true, or at least hasn't been true in the past, of the high profile public speakers on the subject. It's true that that isn't necessarily a good guide to who thinks what.
Hm, you might actually talk to him about that. To put it comically, like in the old days, when the father would go to the nice-looking young man and ask, 'what are your intentions with respect to my daughter?' (My wife's father actually asked me this precise question. I was lucky I wasn't drinking anything when he said that.)
But seriously, if he is thinking about marriage (has the word already come up? Or is it just because of the Hierophant with the Lovers? The arcana maiora can mean different things, and there are different schools of interpretation...), he must -- assuming he is sincere -- be considering the obvious problems, right? She is younger, she hasn't gone to college, goes around with Goth musicians... What is his solution to all that? How does he intend to make it work? If he's in his forties, he must have already realized it doesn't all depend just on romantic feelings and idealism, right?
If it looks like it's becoming serious, then it's better to try to get to know him better. Gauge the risks. Vet him a little. Also find out what it is he represents for your daughter--a wiser guy who can tell her The Truth? A second daddy, just this time a nice one? A Strong Yet Nice Arm to hold her in moments of distress? A Sexual God that fills her with blissful lust? Or someone who she would like to help grow, with issues and problems like everybody else, and who might help her do the same?
I guess the line today is that people have to make their own mistakes. Children need to learn to survive by themselves.
For myself, when I look back at other girlfriends I had before I met my wife, I can see now (after over 8 years of living together and marriage) that, even though I really liked them, it wouldn't have worked with most of them. For most of the time I wasn't practical enough yet. I still needed to grow.
Yeah, talk to the guy and to your daughter, and try to form as good a picture of what is going on as you can. Notice the points of the picture that are logical and internally consistent, and mark the ones that might come from your imagination or the projection of past bad experiences for further inspection. And just Be Ready To Support Her No Matter What--she will have to make her own mistakes, but she's still your daughter.
I don't know if this helps--it doesn't look very well structured to me--but it's offered with a sincere desire to help--at least as much as this almost-39-year-old half-boy-half-man can, from a distance... ;-)
Not every woman who goes to one is looking to meet men.
I it is odd to me also that men complain that they can't meet women on the street. The last place I want to meet a man is on the street. How can one make any judgment at all of a man met on the street. If a man is obviously trying to pick you up on the street, then it is clear that he is probably attracted to your looks and willing to move in on you on that basis alone.
Now one could decide that is fine based upon his looks alone, but I have never in my life wanted a man based on looks alone. I think we are back to the fact that men may just be more driven by the visual than women.
On tactics: The Neg. The idea that a man puts himself in a better (superior) position by saying something mildly negative to a woman, thereby wounding her self esteem enough to provoke her interest in him. First, I think that is a pretty stupid idea. It never worked on me. Second, once I read about it, I told every woman I know. My daughter also told every woman she knows. Moreover, she won't go out with a man who says anything negative at all early on. (She's all into positive vibs.) So what sort of woman does that leave who is vulnerable to that tactic? Dumb ones and women with low-self esteem. My notion is that the only man who really wants a woman with low self esteem is a man who either feels bad about himself or one who intends to be abuse in some way.
I really do think it is true that men don't like it that there are -- in their opinion -- no rules and that they thus don't know how to act to achieve their ends. What they are missing is that women have to do without the rules as well. Women are also confused -- especially young women.
This isn't feminisms fault. Feminism was simply pursuing a better life for women. Of course that meant a breakdown of the old rules, which were essentially disempowering. However all that freedom isn't always freeing and can provoke a certain anxiety.
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