Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

96
Letters
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:00 AM

Diploma with a side of fries

Should students in the bottom 50 percent of their class even bother going to college?

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 08:52 AM

have to disagree

I graduated in the bottom 50% of my high school class (but it was a nerd high school where everyone went to college), and I was able to coast through college and law school with very little effort, so on some level I think the article is on point. There are different reasons why someone may perform poorly in high school, and some of them have nothing to do with native ability.

However, there are many, many mediocre students who have no real desire to go to college but go because it's expected of them. And on that level I think they would be much happier in vocational or technical schools (and much more highly paid afterwards), and there's nothing wrong with that.

There is this reflexive belief that everyone benefits from university study, but there is a huge chunk of the population who are a) just not interested, or b) not prepared, and never will be prepared.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 08:57 AM

Too Narrow Minded

A student in the bottom half of his/her high school class (particularly as a Senior) is not ready for a four year college. The statistics show that he/she will fail. The better alternative is for that student to learn how to be a good student before enrolling in the four year college. Community colleges are a perfect (and economical) place for a young adult to learn to be a student. Students who do well at community colleges transfer successfully to four year colleges. More importantly, a four-year college education is not the best use of time for a young adult who is not a good student. People involved in trades do quite well financially, and the skills needed to be successful do not match with the qualities necessary to be a good student. Pushing young adults toward a course for which they are not ready or are not suited is not necessarily the way to go.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:02 AM

From a HS teacher

"...as a parent who has spent plenty of time with wickedly smart teenagers who nevertheless struggled to get through high school, I am fiercely protective of the kids lurking in the bottom of the class."

So am I-- those are the kids I teach. I think when you say this, Amy, you're kind of agreeing with the guy who wrote the article. Not every kid was meant to go to college, and they turn out just fine following their own path.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:03 AM

College ISN'T for everyone

The whole 'college is the equivalent as a high school diploma' concept is the result of the fact that it is no big deal to go to college anymore, and even people who may not be that intellectually inclined can slog though and get a diploma. Is that what we want? Shouldn't college be reserved for those who show intellectual curiosity and actually want to either be an academic or professional of some sort? I think so.

I don't think it has a lot to do with class rank in high school, but I do think some kids should be given some viable alternatives that can help them find the right fit. Apprenticeship programs for skilled trades are underutilized for people who are smart and capable, but not academic. I don't know why that is a bad thing.

PS college costs are crippling for many people. After 10 years, I still owe over 60K on my student loans and will be paying the old 'second mortgage/tuition" for another 20. So I am a big propnent of doing the cost benefit analysis re: college. It really isn't for all, nor should it be.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:05 AM

Avoid blanket pronouncements

I have more than a few friends who didn't take high school seriously and graduated in the bottom half of their classes, but then they turned 18, left home, grew up, and eventually did quite well in college and graduate school.

In the best of all worlds, we'd have enough funding to ensure that all schools had competent guidance counselors who could sit down with every student and determine whether the kid was just an underachiever, or whether a vocational apprentice program might really be more suitable for him/her than college. But this is America, and we prefer to spend our tax money on the military/industrial complex and on bailing out Wall Street millionaires instead of wasting it on something as quaint as education.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:06 AM

I Don't Buy it Either

As a Spec. Ed. teacher, it disturbs me that people think that low academic performance is solely the function of lower aptitude. The fact is that large swaths of American students are underserved by their local schools and fail to attain critical skills due to a poor academic environment. Many of those students CAN succeed in college. Perhaps they need to attend a community college first, but steering them aay from higher education is a deeply inadequate response.

Furthermore, many children fall down in high school due to family and community stressors, nota lack of ability. Schools however can really help these students get back on the right track by putting an empphasis on all of the possibilities they can have with college education.

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:07 AM

Nemko is right -- sort of

I think that the basic premise of Nemko's article, that not all high school graduates should go to a 4-year college, is right on. However, I think the real problem here is that there is way too much emphasis on ALL students going to a 4-year college right after they graduate. I think society and family expectations push students into college before they are ready. Some kids just don't have the emotional and intellectual maturity to handle a rigorous academic experience.

As a Community College history instructor I see it every semester: kids who got straight-A's in high school unable to construct a few sentences of cogent thought together or to even ask an intelligent question. It's not that they are dumb, it's that they are just too emotionally and intellectually immature to rise to a level required of them to succeed.

I think that we need to seriously re-evaluate our expectations as a society on what our children are really capable of. Should they go to college? Yes. Should they go right out of high school? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they should work a lousy job for a year or two to earn some perspective, learn how to live on your own before you cocoon yourself in your dorm. Save your money and then travel for a few months, see the world you are going to study when you get to college. Join the Peace Corps, AmericaCorps, do something outside your comfort zone and learn something that doesn't come from a book. And yes, shocking as it may sound: join the military. A few years of discipline and structure will do our youth a world of good!

There is no reason in this world that justifies sending 17 and 18-year old kids off to college before they are ready. It is up to parents, and their teachers to help temper expectations with the reality of the emotional and intellectual well-being of these kids.

Most Active Letters Threads

740

The commendably missing element from Obama's speech

There was no pretense that human rights is our goal, or the likely outcome, in escalating the war
688

Obama's exceedingly familiar justifications for escalation

The "new" approach to Afghanistan touted by White House officials seems quite old
364

America's regression

It's almost impossible to find a nation with as many torture advocates as the U.S. has.
329

Yes, it's Obama's war now

An uninspiring speech sells a dubious policy, but progressives who feel betrayed have only themselves to blame
275

Do Obama officials know what his Afghanistan plan is?

What explains the completely contradictory statements from key aides on a central plank of the war strategy?

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon