women's rights are in deep trouble.

Prosecution for torture, murder, rape and mutilation is not on the table.

A woman's right to control her won body is on the table.

This was a set up.

You cannot debate and discuss with the right to life movement. You can only give in.

Now that door is opened?

Can you imagine how much profit there will be in illegal abortions?

Enough to buy every congressman over ten times.

women's rights are in deep trouble.

Prosecution for torture, murder, rape and mutilation is not on the table.

A woman's right to control her own body is on the table.

This was a set up.

You cannot debate and discuss with the right to life movement. You can only give in.

Now that door is opened?

Can you imagine how much profit there will be in illegal abortions?

Enough to buy every congressman over ten times.

Quite honestly, if these pro birth fundies would invest half their energy into caring for the children that are already born this world would be a much better place. They try and sell the deceptive lie that they care about life and children and yet there is no outrage that so many children are homeless, or going to school hungry each day; that is the real social crime under which far too many are suffering. This is not about a respect for life but controlling the bodies of women. Only the naughty girls have sex and pregnancy is meant to be our punishment for being eternal sinners. If we are able to control our fertility that puts us on the same standing as men and we certainly cannot have that in a patriarchal world.

It's bad for business.

Black market condoms? That will be a gold mine too.

Since Obama is as dishonest and arrogant and in denial as anyone else on the Left is about the realities of abortion. Until the Left acknowledges that the taking of any innocent life is murder, there is no honest way forward to vigorous debate. None.

But, IF the Left were finally to acknowledge the murder aspect of abortion, we might be able actually have the other part of the conversation: the part about the basic Human Right of not having the State telling anyone what to do with their bodies.

I do not think that the Left is ready for a mature and vigorous discussion, and I think Obama's obnoxious lecture at Notre Dame proves it.

... to make your false, control freak utopia come to fruition. You want people to "acknowledge" that "abortion is murder", yet you seem to think that, after that capitulation to fundamentalist "christian" taliban in this country that then, and ONLY then will we be "able" to have the "conversation" about people's right to control their own bodies.

Excuse me, but that is as ridiculous a sentiment as it is dishonest. Face it, you want control of women's reproduction to become a "state's interest", not an individual "human right". You and your fellow "abortion is murder" crowd have no intention of engaging in dialog, discussing, or even rationally addressing the dichotomy in your own arguments. In that you're no different than the most rigid pro choice activist who refuses to acknowledge the inherent moral choices involved in having the right to chose abortion. But at least the pro choice side of this debate wants the person involved to be the one making the ultimate choice. You want the state to make that choice... but ONLY as long as "the state" agrees with YOU and your faux moral rigidity.

You can't fool anybody with your attempt to appear even handed. It's an either/or decision.

I could probably end there. I probably should. But...

Forget 'god', forget whether or not abortion is murder. The fact is that laws don't stop people from acting how they choose to act. We have drug laws, we still have crackheads. Murder is illegal, people still kill each other. Regardless of the legality of abortion, women who have made the decision to terminate a pregnancy are going to follow through on that decision. Taking away their ability to have an abortion done in a safe (well... except for the threat of a fundie bombing), and sterile environment will only lead to more desperate measure. Then again, maybe you represent the coat-hanger lobby and are trying to drum up business?

is it ethical to expect a woman to go to some shady back alley clinic to have a rather invasive procedure done by someone who may not have any accredited training? Would you prefer they perform abortions on themselves? That is the reality of making abortion illegal. It won't stop abortion, it'll just create another black market industry. Without regulations.

And to say that a few cells is a life form. please, conservatives always like their 'slippery slope' arguments, so how about this - if a few cells is life, then maybe menstruation should be made illegal. or in the case of men, masturbation.

and to tackle the whole 'there are lots of families that are waiting to adopt' argument. yes. there are. and there are a lot of older children who need and deserve loving homes. but people are too caught up in adopting same-race babies so they can pretend it's biologically theirs. give me a break. your views on this issue need to be aborted.

Please.

This is the same old tired, completely false argument. No progress on this issue is going to be made until the far left stop spouting this nonsense.

You know where a lot of these protesters volunteer? Pregnancy crisis centers. You know, the alternatives to Planned Parenthood where they focus on adoption, and helping expectant mothers out. Free diapers, baby food, etc.

Not to mention nearly every church offers a multitude of social service programs to help out the poor, and a lot of times a ministry specifically for single mothers.

And even Obama agrees that the pro-life movement is not about controlling women's bodies, its about opposition to abortion.

If common ground can be found where abortion is legal but nearly no abortions happen, the majority of both sides would be happy.