Entirely too easy really. I was expecting a valid counterargument and you disappointed me.

But then, how is your typical leftie capitulation any different from the reactions of anyone else who prefers sophistry, misdirection, and smoke and mirrors over REAL arguments based in reality and truth?

Sometimes, the person you are arguing with will actually call you on your bluff and provide you with the petard with which to hoist yourself.

Or maybe you do not know any better because you have always used these tactics and won against weaker contenders.

Sometimes the pig like it.

I give up.

What the hell gives you the right to judge what others do? Why is this so important to you?

How could I not have seen how correct you ARE!

What the hell DOES give me the right to judge what the rapist is doing to the young woman? What the hell was I thinking???

so unless a woman has been PERSONALLY raped, she has no right to speak out against rape nor to even bring the subject up.

OK, I defeated you handily on that one.

In this specific example, yes, I would hate to be that guy. Maybe the woman really did try to trap him. That's a shame, and it's wrong. But to tar all women with such a broad brush is ridiculous.

It's wrong, isn't it? But the society determined that it is RIGHT legally. Precisely what I am talking about.

Do you not see that there is something deeply wrong with this picture?

Do you think I should just keep my mouth shut UNTIL some woman pulls this stunt on me?

you have a rich fantasy world.

Bill Bennett, put it back in your pants you sleazy old gambling addict, you. What Mr. Philosophy doesn't get is that her unabated blissful ignorance is what drives people crazy about Sarah Palin. Running for the nation's highest office is serious business, but the Republicans are always content with just propping up any idiot that can be easily controlled by their neo-conservative regime. For them the dumber the better.

OK-

I truly was interested in your response. When I asked you these questions, I was very careful to ask you to speak from your own experience. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Would you care to try again?

My comments to your response are indicated by >>

I asked: "Have you ever felt coerced into deciding against yourself under threat of punishment? What were the circumstances?"

Brightstar responded:

I do not put myself in such a situation since I value my freedom to do as I please.

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>> Good. Shouldn't that be enough for you? Do you deign to speak for other men or doubt their ability to excercise their own freedom to do as they please, or perhaps, do what they thing is fair and just, according to their own standards?

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I can certainly point to numerous people in relationships around me where the man does certain things for or on behalf of the woman-- specifically,

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>> BZZTTT!!! Not from your own experience! See, this is what I am talking about. You habitually talk out of your ass on things like this. "He" is not "You." What the hell gives you the right to judge what others do? Why is this so important to you?

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- He does not just decide to quit his job and attend university without her input.

- He does not follow his bliss and sleep with the neighbor (women have a distinct advantage here as the husbands are currently portrayed as the root cause of a straying wife)

- He does not tie her up and sexually have his way with her, for instance (if you want a visceral example)

- He does not adopt a child unilaterally and force his wife to help raise the child and if she leaves, tracking her down through the courts and slapping a court order on her to have the court pull money from her job.

Sure, many of these things, a woman can pull the same stunt on a man, and typically society sides with women in such cases while punishing men for the same behavior. Women can be just as or more heinous, but it seems society has not caught up with that fact.

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>> The issues you are describing have to do with issues of basic consideration for the other, and having enough awareness to decide if one is being treated fairly. Normal, healthy people negotiate these matters fairly, and with little difficulty.

However, Unhealthy, unbalanced people do bad shit to each other all the time. Neither men nor women have any monopoly on that fact. If you do someone dirt, that is a stain against you. If you accept having dirt done to you, then you either put up and shut up, or get out, or get some help to figure out what is wrong with you that you can't set and enforce personal boundaries. Sometimes, people in these situations get the short end of the legal stick. I was one of them, so I know from whence I speak. Sometimes men get the shit end of the stick, sometimes the ladies do. But you know what? Life isn't fair. Get fucking used to it.

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"I guess men really ARE considered less worthy than women, both women and men seem to agree on this point."

How did you arrive at this conclusion? What sort of evidence is there, personal or otherwise?

As I describe above, men are irrelevant. Like that guy in Michigan somebody else pointed out the other day (the story made my head almost explode), the woman impregnated herself with his semen after a blow job and the courts pursued him anyway for child support money. THIS MAKES MEN SLAVES-- 3/5ths of a human being (or a women, in this case)

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>> In this specific example, yes, I would hate to be that guy. Maybe the woman really did try to trap him. That's a shame, and it's wrong. But to tar all women with such a broad brush is ridiculous.

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Women can continue to POISON the well like this, men are picking up on the fact that we are the TRUE SLAVES of the planet, the runts, NOT the women. Men will do what they have to do to get back at women for such things. I, of course, take great pleasure in exposing just how heinous women are to men and how they continue to get away with these CRIMES (Yes, I said it: C R I M E S)

----

>> Sounds like you have a persecution complex.

What you are describing sounds more like what happens when people with Axis II personality disorders do all kinds of bad shit to people. They are expert manipulators, and often succee at twisting the story around so that their victims are seen as the perpetrators, and the PD person can then get to play the "victim" card. This happens all the time with custody cases, where one PD partner slimes the other one. Many times, the courts and legal system are completely fooled by PD's. I was in exactly that situation. I know a great deal about PD's, but I never once thought that the disorder had anything to do with the person's sex.

In closing, why not simply excercise your "freedom to do as you please" and let the rest of humanity sort out their own problems? Since you are so obviously smarter than the rest of us, you should have a firm handle on yours, no?

You can even sit back and have a well-earned belly laugh at the human folly all around you.

Go for it!