Who ought to be hunted down and buried alive themselves.

Face it: most of the world is as backwards as if populated by trolls. Venal, petty, stupid...

Think it can be fixed? Ever? I don't. Embrace the horror of it all.

"when they talk about their honor, they really mean their anger".

Changing things like this goes not only through actual prosecution (law enforcement), but also through culture fights. I'll bet many, maybe most of the people of these villages (including, yes, other women) would be furious if nothing had been done about these girls--and this anger, where it comes from, what feeds it (why can the girls' action cause so much anger? what's the rationale? the mechanism?), that's what's really awfully hard to change. In fact, cultural factors make even the first part--law enforcement--difficult, since there are too many people who, though sincerely acknowledging that honor killings go to far, nevertheless do share some of the perpetrators' convictions, which might lessen their ardor in finding and punishing them.

Unfortunately, I'm a pessimist here--at least several decades will pass before (better yet, if) any of this changes significantly.

... Pakistan is our ally in the War on Terror! They're supposed to be the good little brown people!

Can something be done about that highly offensive CHOKE ad? I can't believe a supposed progressive website such as Salon would actually use such an ad.

Well, maybe I'm not all that surprised.

First, I will say, I do not know the answer

(why can the girls' action cause so much anger? what's the rationale? the mechanism?),

But why is this reaction and mechanism seemingly cryptic to so many people?

The contrast is this western style female behavior: Women who CHOOSE TO rut with who they please, when they please, consequences be damned (YES, you women select not for "good" men, but for fuckable men-- BIG difference, fuckable men go fuck the next woman on their list tomorrow night), even if all your sisters are doing the same thing and destroying the culture around them into a hovel of trailer trash, fatherless childrearing.

vs, traditional unbringing: Women and men work together to withold some level of decency, EVEN AT THE EXPENSE OF WOMEN being able to do as they please. The men do not typically fuck around, understanding their role as the head of the household, and the women support the men in what is a difficult role.

It is true that in Pakistani culture, the women will line up to congratulate these men who did this atrocious thing.

They understand that the alternative is a dying, collapsing society, such as America and western Europe.

It has been such since time immemorial.

Is there a better answer than killing transgressors? Maybe abandonment to the woods? Let the tribe down the river deal with them?

Does this let men off the hook? Only to the extent that the men are NOT upholding this agreed upon community vigilance effort. (men fucking wantonly may be considered a bad thing or it may be brushed aside-- I do not know the specifics of the Pakistani culture)

Me repeat: the women in the tribe support this sort of behavior. You feminists, go ask these WOMEN why this is? They will tell you the SAME answer I did, give or take.

you decide.

I meant to say not

vs, traditional unbringing: Women and men work together to withold some level of decency,

but

vs, traditional uPbringing: Women and men work together to UPhold some level of decency,

it would seem that other societies have taken firmer stands in their war on creeping decadence.

Societies have to enforce their moral codes in one way or another, and the louder the message, the more effective it is. Compare the events in Pakistan with the public shaming of Bristol Palin in an attempt to curb teen pregnancy - which do you think has a better chance of succeeding?

Did they go overboard in Pakistan? It would seem so. But what I take from this is that feel more strongly about honoring their fathers and mothers, so to speak, than Americans do. And if Americans want change on things like teen pregnancy, they better up the stakes a little bit. Actions speaking louder than words and all that.

So what... a little genital mutilation, perhaps? How about some light defenestration? Thanks for playing.

Yep, you are truly, truly vile. Your lonliness and rejection are not the result of a lack of "fuckability". You are alone because you are a horrible misogynist, and that is simply not attractive. You reek of gross, unibomber weirdness, and I only hope that when your rage ignites, it turns inwards rather than on those around you.

not a goddam thing happened to the MEN In this medieval tragedy. I cannot believe anyone would even faintly approve of this sort of "morality discipline."

I mean, according to the LW on the other thread this is along the lines of what Palin should be doing right now with her kid.

This article said these girls were trying to marry the men they loved; it said nothing about them carrying babies outside of wedlock, it said nothing about them committing adultery, and it said nothing about them engaging in any kind of sexual activity whatsoever. Rebelling by wanting to get married? One would think relics such as dhulqarnayn would applaud the girls' efforts to sanctify their love instead of promoting these tribal customs as a legitimate effort in the fight against "decadence." I'm also tired of hearing the excuse that the women of these cultures support and uphold these traditions so why should we in the West offer any opinion or engage in efforts to see that these crimes are stopped. Fine, book the women as accessories. Right now the focus is on honor killings of women; however, don't be fooled into thinking that this doesn't happen to men as well. Most focus has been placed on women due to the fact that the majority are gender specific.

A lot of the activist groups dedicated to stopping honor killings actually start quietly in their native and/or adopted countries, and use those such as myself to spread their message in the West and obtain donations so their brave and tireless work can continue. As far as honor killings being a valuable tool in the fight against "decadence," can you please explain to me what about Pakistan right now supports that these barbaric rituals have given rise to a society that epitomizes moral, cultural, political or economic superiority in the world?