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Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:00 AM

Quote of the day

New York Times reporter David Carr on being a welfare dad.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:04 AM

Huh?

Does anyone know what the hell this guy is talking about?

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:12 AM

What David Carr is Talking About

Sure, I know what he's talking about, although not, thank God, from experience.

He's got a wife, a family, a house, his health, and a by-line at one of the most prestigious papers in the world.

A woman who'd gone through his problems would have gotten an insufficient monthly check and all the lectures they'd force her to her knees to swallow.

He's thankful that a combination of ability, determination and privilege saved him from that. It does him credit, in my opinion.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:14 AM

What he's saying

When my dad was raising me alone, everyone admired him. Look at that young man with a 4 year old girl, people were down right impressed.

Nobody assumed that he was an idiot and knocked up some girl. No one tut tutted about how I was being deprived. No one thought that he didn't deserve help, people came out of the woodwork to help him, family and friends, women (unsolicited)would volunteer to take me into restrooms, etc. It even helped him in the dating world, because look at how responsible he was, how kind...

Single Mom's are not given the same benefit of the doubt, they have to justify what happened.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:38 AM

It all comes down to sex

The same old story of boys will boys so its ok, even cool, when a single man walks around with living proof of having had sex, but a single woman, while respected for not having had an abortion, she made the hard choice, blah blah; is still looked at as a slut who should have known better because now she is stuck with a kid and a bleak future.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:42 AM

It's all about societal expectations

The answer is simple and we all know it. It's expected, thus taken for granted, of women because they are the mother. Mothers are supposed to, by nature, nurture and care for children. When the mother and father aren't together as a couple, it's a standard expectation that the mother has the majority of the care taking role. Because of this, when a father is the main or only care taker it's looked upon as special.

As David pointed out it's unfair, but there it is.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:55 AM

He's talking about

My son (20) and his girlfriend happen to both have very young sibilings. She has a baby sister and a three year old brother. He has a two year old brother. She takes care of her sibilings during the day. My son takes our little one out and about by himself all of the time. Understandably, people assume that the little ones belong to the older ones. With my son, people are helpful, talk to him, and he generally has a very positive experience with being considered a dad by strangers. She has the opposite experience. People assume that she is an unmarried, young mom, and they make comments. She constantly explains that the kids are her sibilings, not her children, and gets a much warmer reception.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:57 AM

PArt of it is sexism, part of it is expectations

Everyone has a mom, not everyone has a dad. The DNA yes, but most men can't just go to a bank and get the material to make a baby like a woman can. A non adopted child always knows who mommy is, plenty don't know who daddy is for a myriad of reasons. It's like there is a pyramid of what a father is, at the top is the married man, then the divorced weekend dad, then the divorced deadbeat dad, then the you get the drift. While mother means one thing, you are the person primarily responsible for the caring of the infant, child, teen and to fall short of that, is seen as a trespass on society.

For a man, he doesn't have a womb after all, so when he has taken on the responsibility its seen always as a pure choice, not a burden, not an accident so he gets applauded. They see any single dad as either a widower or some guy who must have hooked up with a real loser of a woman and had to fight to win his children from her. So he's seen as responsible and a fighter.

Plus he's going to have somewhat of a good time with women, as he's already proven he's a responsible father. While a single mother, it's expected of her to be a good mom by having a womb so that's not what most men look for first in a woman. Many want her to be focused on him and his needs before he's willing to expend his energy and resources on children.

Women are expected to be responsible mothers, when they fall below that expectation they are given a lot of crap. Men are not expected to be fathers, so when they do it the expectations are much lower and more praise is garnered.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:03 AM

It's always annoying when someone applies how they feel

to the rest of society. Maybe it is all his friends in New York who feel this way or maybe just the way he thinks and feels, but not the predominant thought among people. So maybe Carr needs to change his outlook on people and quit blaming everyone else.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:37 AM

David Carr Quote

Thank you! I am so pleased someone picked up on this remarkable quote.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:38 AM

sadly, 'cuz not as much is expected of men.

so when men decide to take on parental obligations society cheers them on like we were cheering at the Special Olympics.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:49 AM

I honestly

Don't think society celebrates single unwed fathers with substance abuse problems any more than it celebrates the same in mothers. It may be stigmatized less....Of course, this all misses the point, that ultimately those situations are difficult for people to rise above, independent of gender. To imply that society goes out of its way for men as opposed to women in this situation only obfuscates the real issues.

Of course, to the extent that Carr is actually hitting the nail on the head, our current economic situation will actually fix the gender disparity. Ephemeral dollar and market rallies notwithstanding, damage is continuing to cascade through the economy and it's premature to gauge the debacle that the freddie and fannie bailout will ultimately be. Long story short, there will be so much suffering that the value of distinguishing between downtrodden men and women or parsing society's opinion of them by gender will be nonexistent. People will be turning to the state in record numbers....and, if history is any judge, the state is likely to drop the ball on this one. Turning the ship around, for everyone, shouldn't devolve into another front in the gender wars or become a victimization contest.

Apologies if I took my post on too much of a tangent....used welfare as a jumping off point.

btr

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