Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

43
Letters
Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:00 AM

"Virginity is more important to me than life"

The disturbing increase in hymenoplasty surgery among European Muslim women.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:44 PM

More religious nonsense

Anyone who puts up with this kind of crap deserves the loser they end up with.

Before doing this procedure, any doctor with any sense should bring in the prospective groom and any other insane relatives and thump 'em in the fucking head.

These people need serious re-programming.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:49 PM

Fake Virgins

"And in case you were starting to indulge feelings of moral superiority, he continues with the chilling revelation, 'I have colleagues in the United States whose patients do this as a Valentine’s present to their husbands.'"

Do the husbands respond in kind by being clumsy and awkward?

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:51 PM

Extra, extra

The article provides no evidence of either "increasing popularity" nor the "growing prevalence" (or for that matter a "disturbing increase") in the procedure. It's just an anecdote. With extra icky, to sell papers.

So glad you linked it here. Thanks.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:56 PM

why can't we blame the doctors?

I have no memory of mine breaking (if I ever had one) except that it didn’t happen when I had sex for the first time. And that’s really sort of scary – you’ve got to figure it’s not the women who know they’ve done wrong and are getting the surgery who are in danger – it’s women like me who fully expect to bleed but don’t who are in danger. So I do blame the doctors! By participating in this surgery they are perpetuating the myth that an intact hymen = virginity even when that is false, false, false. And by letting people believe that the two are so strongly connected it puts a lot of women in a very dangerous spot. I think that breaks their professional oath to do no harm.

And the Valentine’s Day thing is just silly. I really just don’t believe it. That doctor is full of shit – or he’s just seen one awful, probably mentally ill American. I mean - who would want to give their husband the present of their pain and blood? And what sort of freak job of a man would accept that gift as a good thing? It makes no sense.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:57 PM

Why not

blame the doctors who perform the operation?

As you say, there are many reasons, besides having sex, that a woman's hymen might be torn or missing. So why wouldn't a doctor point out this vital detail to a family demanding "proof of virginity"?

Maybe because he'd rather make a Euro or two on hymen-restoring plastic surgery?

Like others here, I doubt that the surgery is actually very widespread. Public insurance doesn't cover it, and where is a 23-year-old going to get the money to pay for it while keeping the procedure a secret from her family?

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:58 PM

Fraud is no way to start a marriage

If these women care about being virgins, stay virgins until marriage. If not find a husband who doesn't care about their virginity.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:04 PM

Chinese students in the 70's

When I was in college in the late 60's and early 70's, some Chinese students were eager to participate in sexual relations, but were very careful to not have vaginal penetration (all else was OK). An intact hymen is no evidence of virginity.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:05 PM

my favorite quote

She said his conservative extended family in Morocco was requiring that a gynecologist — and family friend — there examine her for proof of virginity before the wedding.

I'm just trying to picture this...

This guy's uncle comes up to him and says "Hey, congrats on the engagement! But before you get married, we're going to need to take a trip to Morocco so my buddy can check out your fiancee's vagina."

And this guy agrees to it! And makes his wife go in for surgery so she can pass inspection.

I hate to sound culturally insensitive, but... What a pack of weirdos.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:09 PM

Horrible Double Standard

If there is one thing I'm mad at men for is the development of the double standard that women should be chaste while men should not. Hello?!? I want to get laid but everyone I want to hump shouldn't want to put out? What were we thinking?!?

Religion aside I've always wondered if this stemmed from basic male insecurity about other men fucking their women. Whatever it is its a shame.

As Chris Rock said "Just be glad you're fucking her now!"

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:10 PM

Remember the darker side to this

Better hymenoplasty than death by "honor killing."

Of COURSE I don't think it's right. But right now, it is what it is.

Let's hope the next generation changes it.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:14 PM

Slight mischaracterization of the recent case in France ...

I'd just like to point out that, yes, the husband was upset that the bride didn't bleed on the sheet during the wedding party, but she then ADMITTED that she had lied to him about being a virgin.

Obviously her being a virgin was an important prerequisite of the marriage for him and this was made quite clear before the wedding. She lied about her status and went through with the wedding anyway. When he confronted her on the issue due to a lack of hymen blood she admitted she had lied. So, it is quite clear that the marriage was based on fraud and the judge was right to grant the annulment.

Now, if she had maintained her "innocence" throughout this whole affair, and never admitted that she lied, THEN this would be a much more interesting story. As others have noted a lack of hymen blood does not necessarily mean that the woman is not a virgin and vice versa. In that case, I don't think the judge could grant an annulment simply based on the husband's suspicions that she wasn't a virgin.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:20 PM

It's about choice, not the procedure

Are we supposed to care that there are people who get their kicks out of surgical pseudo-virginity? So what? It's their business. It's what they choose to do.

And if Muslim women, or any other variety, feel that having some symbolic representation of virginity is important to them culturally, fine. More power to them.

When it's about coercion, that's when it crosses a line.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:25 PM

Could be life or death, and not just for Muslims

I haven't read the Bible in awhile, but unless I'm mistaken, women who don't bleed on their honeymoon to are to be stoned. In fact I understand that some of Mike Huckabee's associates still think this is a good idea.

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 01:36 PM

I'd change the headline of this article to

"Virginity is essential to my life"

Alleged non-virgins can be killed after all.

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