Well, they wouldn't have been so successful without the CIA, right brightstar? Come on, tell your new friend Walter about how the CIA secretly funded Gloria Steinem.

I'm also wondering how anyone who's read a book, watched TV or seen a movie can think "I want to be friends," means "By all means, continue." It's one of the most cliched brush-offs we have.

Got that right. It's your signal that she's not attracted and maybe isn't going to be.

It's your signal to pick up your hat and smile and politely say goodnight. And you're gonna be classy about it. Everybody's happy, nobody gets hurt. No one dame means that much to you at that stage.

And you're gonna find somebody else. Just don't be surprised if she comes ringing your phone later. She does that, tell her you'll think about it. From now on she's asking you out.

Quite a bit had been written about this, even in the so called 'legitimate' media.

You have an interest in mocking it, obviously. Which makes your position irrelevant on this topic.

Ah, withholding sex. The weapon of the weak.

If you think it's easy for a MAN to withhold sex from an attractive woman, you know nothing about men. Only the very strongest man can do it, self-respecting and sure of himself.

But you'd have to be attractive to know that. Which might explain why you don't.

For a long long time, it was mostly women who had no other leverage. Perhaps one day women will hold the reigns of power, education, money, etc., with men being limited to only a few demeaning professions, if able to earn money at all, and it will be the men who will find it not so difficult to withhold sex? It's not my fault you're a sex-starved horndog.

But you'd have to be attractive to know that. Which might explain why you don't.

Oooh, you called a woman ugly on the internet! lol

Better trolls, please.

Makes no matter; a man like that would have raped some woman sooner or later. You are not responsible for his misogyny. You did not create his ugliness. He was a bad man.

You're assuming that he was a habitual rapist or otherwise bad man. That's a mistake. You're also assuming everyone was calm enough to make sensible decisions at the time. That's not true either. Once someone's heart rate goes over 100+ beats per minute, sense isn't in his repertoire. That doesn't make him bad, that makes him human. We even tend, as a species, to become more aggressive after simple exercise.

You've never met either of us. My social skills are bad now, but they were even worse then and I was a heck of a lot prettier. The man in question wasn't an American. We hadn't spent much time together at that point. He couldn't have known that there was something wrong with me. He found out later and felt like crap, but by then, the damage was done.

My point is this: women aren't being indirect. They're following a set of social norms that keep them safe in high-tension situations. Saying no directly doesn't mean that a woman deserves rape. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that indirect communication is less likely to rev an already aroused man's heart rate beyond a point where he can think straight.

I violated a social norm. Rape isn't an appropriate punishment for that, but it gives a hint as to why that norm is in place.

Another thing I've noticed while trying to navigate this mess is that "I wish women were more direct" isn't always direct communication, either. It often means, "I wish the women I wanted were interested in me." Women being direct isn't going to fix that problem.

People who withhold sex are people who have no other leverage

Men have plenty of leverage, babe. A real man can pick up his hat, smile sweetly, politely say goodnight, and find himself a woman who isn't a man-hating shrew.

There's plenty available. Sucks, doesn't it?

There ya go. Sex withheld.

You think decent guys grow on trees? Is that why you're so lonely? Is that why women whine they can't get a decent guy, because there's so many around?

Lie to yourself if you like, sister. You can't lie to me. And that's what's got you bugged.

I'm not even sure what you're saying anymore. "You can't lie to me. And that's what's got you bugged." I lied to you? What about? Are you imagining things? Or maybe you think I'm looking for a date? :)

Men have plenty of leverage, babe. A real man can pick up his hat, smile sweetly, politely say goodnight, and find himself a woman who isn't a man-hating shrew.

Well, I guess we're talking about different things. Breaking up with someone, or rejecting them isn't what i meant by "withholding sex." I was talking about it within the context of a relationship, the way many women are able to, to try to get something that they want out of their partner. Like "sex for house chores," like that. In that case, IMHO, those who withhold sex are those who have no other leverage.

Oh and don't worry, I'm such a man-hating, obese, lonely, ugly, hairy, birkenstock-wearing shrew, you have no idea!

I'm not even sure what you're saying anymore.

Of course not. I'm not saying "Yes dear, anything you say dear, just don't leave me!" like your last three wimpy boyfriends, so anything I say is going to be a foreign language to you.

Oh and don't worry, I'm such a man-hating, obese, lonely, ugly, hairy, birkenstock-wearing shrew, you have no idea!

Means nothing to me, babe. I wouldn't know you from Eve. Or Adam, for that matter.

The CIA funded Gloria Steinem... why? To destabilize society? Why would they do that? And why would they have been working against other destabilizers, like MLK? And how does this explain Betty Friedan, and other non-funded feminists? And how does it explain non-US feminism, and feminism that preceded the women's movement in the US, like the suffragettes, and Simone de Beauvoir and Mary Shelley and John Stuart Mill? Or maybe they were also all funded by the CIA?

I'm so confused, but it's probably because i'm a dumb broad or something.