Sure, could be housework. Thoughtfulness. Manliness. Tenderness. Nerdiness. Anything, really. Do it really well, and it's hot.

So, as far as the women vs men sniping, I'm have to confess I'm actually kinda on the fence. My husband and I have the exact same job with the same boss, same pay, we commute together so we work the same hours. I think he would agree that I do most of the housework. My mother is a total neatnik dictator, and I grew up resenting her arbitrarily high standards of cleanliness. So I don't feel that I should impose my lower, but still relatively arbitrary standard of cleanliness on my husband. So I do most of the housework, and for the most part I don't mind too much. But I still can't help but get a tiny bit resentful sometimes when I have to remind him to do the small number of chores that are unequivocally his (mostly, taking out the trash). Or when he's relaxing and I'm scrubbing the toilet or cleaning up dinner.

A lot of times, it's not even doing the tasks that gets to me; it's feeling responsible for them. I know that if I ask him to do something he will, cheerfully even. But there I am imposing my arbitrary standards, again. And it would just be so nice if there were a few things that I just did not have to worry about happening, that I knew would be taken care of without my intervention.

I gotta tell you guys, though, there are still plenty of men out there who expect their wives to cook and keep a spotless house whether or not they work outside the home. (I'm on a housekeeping mailing list, and the emails there prove it unequivocally.) Housework parity remains a real problem. My marriage is very happy; the housework is really just a quibble. But people get divorced over floor-mopping.

"The idea that such "housewifery" even exists in 2008 is pretty funny. Maybe the illusion of it is maintained by Martha Stewart (who in reality is a single 66 year old billionaire, with an army of servants), but the reality of it is long dead."

Where do you live ? I can tell you "housewifery" is alive and well in the suburbs. As I have written here before, in the Atlanta suburbs, moms that don't work are still seen as a status symbol (for the wives anyway). I have heard the neighbors wives say things like, "I'll never go back to work !" Privilege indeed.

Being wealthy enough to hire domestic help and buy jewelry or other durables that women desire will get men laid more probably than actually helping out with household chores.

Almost all women in postmodern western society are essentially prostitutes who will sell themselves to the highest bidder at their first opportunity.

Some women like Oprah have their own independent wealth and can afford to buy the services of male partners/prostitutes in a similar fashion.

We all get the partners we either can afford or attract.

First of all, house work and child care are still time consuming as hell, and have to be done on a weekly basis. When you are already working long hours and taking work home on the weekends, it can be overwhelming. This is true even when you don't have kids.

Second, the division of labor affects people's careers. If you are in a competitive profession, then the hours you spend on housework are hours that you aren't spending on your paid work. Women (and men in two-career marriages) are competing against guys who don't have to spend time outside of work on other chores because they have wives doing it for them. And once things get too overwhelming for a two-career couple, guess who winds up quitting her job or scaling back her career? Yep -- it's the woman, often because she is doing all the household and child work anyway and is overwhelmed OR because it is automatically expected that she will be the one to make the career sacrifice. (After all, no one ever talks about "juggling" fatherhood and career, right?)

Third, these things are very difficult to negotiate in marriage. There is still very much an assumption that the woman is in charge of making sure the house runs smoothly and everyone's needs taken care of. Couples tend to automatically settle into that pattern, unless the woman makes a stink. But if she makes a stink about it then she is disrupting things and extracting "concessions" from her husband. And who wants to think of marriage as a power struggle? So a lot of women accept the status quo rather than make waves and take the consequences, while simmering with resentment all the while.

Brightstar: My fiancee is already trying to pull those power games on me.

Ahahahahahaha.

Sorry.

Laurel: flowers or Godiva chocolate or dinner at a great restaurant would pull more weight with me.

That's how much Laurel giving out some sex costs, I guess.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I feel this is the offensive part of the theory -- that men have all these sexual desires and needs, that women (having few or none of their own) simply decide to gratify or not, based on materialistic, self-serving standards. That's crap, and I'm sort of embarrassed that anybody still thinks this way.

I agree with that completely.

You are a fool to get married. Hope you enjoy doing dishes!

P.S. After you pay off the big wedding, start saving for that big divorce. Modern women... they are expensive.

that's why we are talking about a story where slob women can't get their husbands to fuck them.

yeah right lecastor

that's why we are talking about a story where slob women can't get their husbands to fuck them.

-- dick dworkin

slob women? um, so women who don't do all the housework and expect their male significant others to do at least some of the housework are slobs?

what does that make the men?

lolerz.