Letters to the Editor
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"Honor Killings" ... "Dowry Deaths" ... Whatever
There seem to be many different "cultural" explanations and terms for instances when men kill women, the implication being that it's not murder, but rather a culturally justifiable practice with which we disagree.
Meanwhile, it also seems that no matter what culture we're talking about, when a woman kills a man it is always called the exact same thing: "murder." And the murderer is treated as such. None of this "Oh, well, it's just their way I suppose," when a woman kills a man.
These terms given to the murder of women by men is nothing more than men in male-dominated societies justifying the brutal killing of the opposite sex.
(I'm a dude.)
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Where'd the bit about racist lynchings come from?
The Koran does not teach it. The culture itself does. Very nice how you can split the atom that way.
Correctly placing the blame/identifying the source is "splitting the atom"?
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Isn't that like saying...
that christians should have to take the responsibility for the actions of Fred Phelps and his ilk? I wonder how many of Cinnamon's readers would be okay with that?
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It was a response to calcareous's multiculti position
It wasn't so long ago in this country that a black man could find himself hanged for insulting a white woman's honor by looking at her with a look somebody else percieved as lust.
Regarding splitting the atom....
As others have said, the culture and the Koran reinforce each other. Saying it is not authorized in the Koran but not acknowledging the long common cultural contribution is disingenuous. If as Schrier says, Islamic law calls for the death of adulterous women, then it is dishonest for T to say, "it's Islamic law yes, but it's not the Koran!"
I don't think the laws that made it legal to hold slaves in the United States stated that slaves had to be kept in poor conditions, tortured, and raped. I think that so called anti-slavery people that claim that the American legal system was responsible for the poor conditions, the torture, and the rape of slaves are way off base.
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SeanStuart
but rather a culturally justifiable practice with which we disagree.
I don't know about others, but when I point out it is cultural and not the Koran driving such things, I am not in any way saying it is "justifiable". I'm saying you need to put the blame where it belongs so you can better fight the problem. Those people who engage in such killings are murderers. Dispicable "people" who deserve to be prosecuted and imprisoned for the rest of their lives. Honor Killings are never right, but blaming Islam makes as much sense as blaming Christianity for the KKK.
Personally, I don't care for either Christianity or Islam, but I'm not about to tar either with a brush meant for a minority of those involved or the cultures associated with them.
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ya gotta love her name
Cinnamon is a name most people would use for a poodle or a bunny rabbit. But then, "Mitt" is a dog's name too.
I notice that conservative women and men both often have vaguely pet like names (or porn star like). Just an observation.
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Ah, see you'd quoted me in the Subject line, so I was wondering.
the culture and the Koran reinforce each other
OK, which culture? Iranian? Indonesian? Kenyan? Arabic? There's the problem in claiming one is to blame when it is the other. Blaming the Koran for (for example) a Pakistani cultural problem is like blaming an American for a Russian cultural problem simply because both have high concentrations of Christians.
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@ tina schrier
Well, if you want to look at how 1400 years of Islam have affected Islamic countries' culture, and use that as a defining (and damning) perspective, you might want to take a look at Europe in 1400 Christian Era and check out how Christianity formed and defined the culture with its pervasiveness and intertwining, you know, the Inquisition, judicial torture, witch-burning, Wars of Religion, and so on.
But it is a facile argument on all sides.
And you are rather over-stating the case on the Koran and Sharia; generally, you can find as much or indeed rather more nasty stuff in the Bible if you want to. And it wasn't all that long ago that women in our society were still legally regarded as domestic property, heck it took until the 20s until women were even legally established as "persons" here in Canada.
And please, linking FGM and Islam is outright slander, after the clear and authoritative fatwa on it, which not only said it was not sanctioned by Islam, but further that it was contrary to Islam. Even a barbaric tribal quasi theocratic despotism like Saudi looks down on it with contempt and disgust.
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Common Beginning
And always remember when trashing Islam in favor of Christianity. Islam was based on Christianity the same way Christianity was based on Judaism.
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Sorry about that, I didn't mean to imply that was your position....
It is often the position of many people in these discussions, but I was mistaken to imply that was your position.
Regarding whose culture, you make it sound as though all of these cultures evolved completely independently and somehow had Islam laid on top of them. Anthropologists know that few cultures evolve independently of others.
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Canuckistan Bob
please do not fall for this old and tired saw that "because Christianity is bad, that makes Islam okay".
It doesn't. It just makes them both bad.
It's also a little dishonest to drag the worst atrocities of Christianity out of the Dark Ages and say this means Christianity in its current avatar is the same as Islam today. Christianity is very different now, thanks to having lost its power and clout. If Islam were that powerless, it would change too. That's what Hirsan Ali means when she says "Islam must be crushed"--she wants to see it get to that stage, of being powerless in a political sense. However I have to disagree with her rhetoric. To too many people, "crushing Islam" means killing Muslims. But I digress...
There was no fatwa issued against FGM until a great deal of first world outrage was directed against it. Islam was and still is largely silent on the topic.
Your outburst does not hide the fact that you cannot deny the basic charge--that Islam advocates the death penalty for women who commit immoral acts. Whether executed by order of Sharia of your family--what difference does it make? Dead is dead.