Letters to the Editor
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Oh logic
Logically, if a woman deemed a man totally irrelavent in the decision to terminate a pregnancy, she never would have told him she was doing it or that she was pregnant. Hence he would feel no grief, never imagine a life with that child that could have been because he wouldn't know about it.
I know many women who've had abortions, every single one asked the man what he wanted, every single man said either it's up to you or please abort it. Are there women who don't give a shit what the man has to say, I'm sure there are, those men have no idea they got a woman pregnant. If men are so concerned for their grief, I'm sure women can come up with a way to sheild these men from the bad feelings that may result, we can just not tell you.
Bottom line, you cannot force someone to be an incubator for you. Just like you can't force them to give you their kidney, liver or take a bone marrow test because you have lukemia. You can't even force a dead person to be an organ donor, they have to volunteer for that.
Do men have feelings regarding the subject, of course they do. But feelings never trump someone's control over their own body, it's why rape is wrong. It doesn't matter how powerless a man wants to make a woman feel, it doesn't matter how crappy he feels about any abuse he may have dealt with in childhood, it doesn't matter how horny he feels, he does not get to force a woman/man/child to have sex with him because of his feelings.
Also, regarding child support, complain to the state. People complain about welfare, well when there is a child that needs food, clothes and shelter and the woman can't afford all of those things for the child herself, the state goes after the other parent because people hate welfare. If that parent can't be found well hey, the guy doesn't have to pay. Also, men do not always go to prison for not paying child support. Mine did not, my best friends dad never paid a dime and he never went to jail and these were men who were married and helped raise the children for a few years. Then the when the marriage ended decided they didn't need to participate in their children's lives either.
Also, in regards to child support. There are plenty of women who got pregnant accidentally and never asked the man for a dime. Don't act like all or most women are just waiting around to get knocked up so that they can extract some money from some poor helpless schlub. Also, the money is for the child.
I'm tired of the argument that since women can have an abortion men deserve a financial abortion. The child who is now breathing and eating on it's own, who cannot fend for itself, should not suffer because the father doesn't want to pay child support. Birth control fails, sometimes humans forget to use it. Women have consequences, either they have an abortion, an emotional procedure, not the same as a root canal or any other surgery whether you believe it or not or they have a baby, that they keep or give to another family to raise. They may experience post partum depression, their vagina will never be the same. They may be more prone to bladder infections, they get hemmoroids. If a man fails to use safe sex practices or those methods fail, then his consequnces are that he may never know about the resultant pregnancy or he may not get his preference in regards to abortion or a child. There is no scott free escape for a woman who didn't practice safe sex, or who's birth control failed her. There is also no scott free escape for a man, which is what you ask for when you ask for a financial abortion. Absolutely no consequences for yourself. Due to different biology, the consequences for un-safe sex or BC failure is going to be different for the owners of different genetalia. You cannot make something that is biologically inequitable, equal and scream but we need fairness. That is illogical. You cannot take a state that is completely unequal and try to make it equal.
I am an adult, if I commit a crime, say vehicular manslaughter, my punishment will be greater than the punishment for say a 14yr old who commits the same act. Why, because our mental faculties are not equal. Do you rail and scream about how unfair it is that teens get lesser sentences for the same crimes adults do?
One last thing though, the only thing I don't think is okay, is that I don't think it's okay for a woman to give up the baby for adoption without the man's permission. He is the biological father, if he would like to raise the baby himself, he should be given the option and she is going to pay child support. This may result in more abortions possibly, but in that instance I don't think it's okay to rob a child of the biological connection to it's father without asking the father first or proving that the father would be totally unfit to raise a child.
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re: A "pregnancy" is not a "child."
Anonymous,
"Full stop after the word "uterus." Women consider the man's viewpoint largely irrelevant after impregnation because the physical consequences can NEVER be his. Simple biology."
Then why bother the man at all about it? If impregnation is simple biology, let the man go about his merry way and the woman can take care of it...period.
"After a child is born, a third person has entered the picture, with separate rights... and with two biological parents. That third person has some claim to the support of both parents. (Mom's already done a BUNCH by this point, mind you.)"
WHY? The woman has already decided this third person will be born to her and she will take care of it. WHY should the man suddenly be brought into the picture now? HE didn't decided that he wanted one and HE didn't decide not to have an abortion. Sounds like you like having your cake and eating it too. The guy had no decision to make BEFORE, so he should be out of the picture NOW.
"I'm a woman, I'm looking at it logically, and I'm puzzled that you apparently cannot tell the difference between a pregnancy and a child. As much as some men might want the issues of abortion rights and child support to be linked, they're simply not."
I can tell the difference between a pregnancy and a child...but I can also see that the woman decided to HAVE the child and keep it while the guy had no decision in the matter. So why is it suddenly pertient that the man now has to pay child support because the abortion option was not used?
"As for the men wallowing in guilt and regret over abortions... perhaps some of that is genuine, but I suspect many men just want to use their "tears as weapons," or however the moron put it, to exert further control over women. These men gripe that their "feelings aren't considered." What this really means -- since only one decision can be made -- is that they're upset that women don't have to do as they're told WRT pregnancy or abortion."
Here we go...you show yourself to be someone who disreguards the feeling of men because they "just want to use their "tears as weapons," or however the moron put it, to exert further control over women". You apparently do NOT believe men can have feelings for children and are only good for supporting the kids and sex.
"What does "giving men a say" actually MEAN, in practical terms? If they get 49% of the decision, it's still irrelevant, and they're sure as hell not getting 51%."
Giving men a say doesn't mean to give up all rights to an abortion, but at least let the poor guy get his opinion in before either making him a father or aborting his child. Doesn't mean you have to listen to him, but at least he can let his thoughts and feelings in the matter be known. Is that asking so much???