Letters to the Editor
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That's Totally Bull Sh*t, BS65
You wrote:
"The difference in drunkenness is that there is essentially no difference in how a woman behaves whether she was drunk or not"
No, BS65, a woman who is incoherently drunk can't say "yes". A woman who is conscious, competent, and alert can say "yes".
If the woman can't give a clear, conscious, uninfluenced "yes", then any entry into her body, or sexual act performed on her body, is rape.
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Response to Serai1
"You're still equating a criminal with a victim. It doesn't matter how drunk the rape victim is, she (or he) still didn't commit a crime. So it doesn't matter how much you think it's "unfair" that a victim should be protected by law but a criminal should be arrested and tried. Whatever issues you have with the idea of women drinking and men being allowed to act as they please with them are immaterial. The law is there to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. Until somebody makes a law saying it's illegal to get drunk AT ALL, your argument will never be valid."
First of all, you are equating a criminal with an accused. As someone else on this board pointed out, just because you're accused, you're not guilty. This may surprise and dishearten you, but you're not a criminal until you're convicted.
Second, the entire crime of rape hinges on the victim's state of mind -- did she consent or not? It's also presumed that the man is somehow clairvoyant, and can discern whether or not she's capable of consent. My favorite is when she consents, then changes her mind, and he's not quick enough to stop. Rape law is one big game of "gotcha." How progressive. But in this case, the alleged victim deliberately created her state of mind. She deliberately eliminated her own ability to consent. This discussion is not about whether or not she's a criminal. Nobody's saying that, and when you claim I did, you're using The Big Lie. What I'm saying is that a woman who deliberately (no roofies) gets herself drunk should have to bear some of the responsibility, which should mean a lighter sentence or higher evidentiary standards for the accused. Getting drunk, then setting up a system where the man who fails to accurately assess that state means ten years on prison is entrapment, folks.
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We need to assume
Everything means no. It's always rape. The only sane approach is complete celibacy. Thank the Lord I'm already married so that's no challenge at all.
Seriously though - why can't modern women just say that to their dates and whatnot. Just tell them flat out "I will never ever have sex with you under any circumstances. If you touch me I will have you arrested. Let's be friends." I would be fine if those were the ground rules.
BTW did you hear about that woman who was just convicted of the 2nd degree murder of shooting her husband to death in his sleep? Her sentence? 2 days in jail, 10 years probation and a $10,000 fine. That rocks. If I were a woman I'd get married just to kill someone.
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I'm really confused.
Some people are saying that if I get really drunk and go outside behind a bar and throw up and then pass out that some guy can come along and pull my pants down and put it to me up my ass and I haven't been raped?????
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@ Erica
Thanks for the comforting pat on the head, but it wasn't needed - I am in fact Scottish, though a long time ex-pat. I've got a pretty good idea of who Scots take the piss out of, including "foreigners" who think they've settled in to local life.
If you've lived in Edinburgh for a while then you've also noticed that Scots often exhibit a lack of cultural confidence that shows up in things like signs at the airport welcoming you to the best small country in the world: a debatable claim.
Despite having left Scotland a long time ago, I'm still well able to demonstrate that glorious tradition - as you would have been able to tell had I followed my first instinct and suggested that Scottish rape law didn't include buggery because that's for English public school boys and Tory MPs (redundant, I know).
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FetGirl is BullSh##T
No, BS65, a woman who is incoherently drunk can't say "yes". A woman who is conscious, competent, and alert can say "yes".
My current girlfriend has never once said 'yes' to me. She and I make out and it leads to sex. But I have never once heard her utter the word 'yes'.
If you were honest, you would admit your lover has never explicitly told you 'yes' either.
It just happens and is accepted or rejected. No woman, unfortunately, wants a man who she HAS to say 'yes' to.
If you could pull your head out of your boyfriend's ass long enough to realize men are also human, you would realize how unfair this all is.
Don't call bullsh$$t on me unless you are willing to be honest.
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Haggismold
Good English burn. I was thinking the same thing, but more along the lines that, I thought the Scots left buggery to the English. You guys are more about the sheep, right? No wait, that's Kiwi's....
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Man Trapping
In many cases this law may be fair. But what happens when a girl decides she didn't like the sex -- or can't remember it -- and claims rape?
Frankly, this happens. The Duke case comes to mind. I want to know what provisions are made to prevent the conviction of the innocent, or their trial in the media.
In democracy, we presume innocence, and put a high burden of proof on proving guilt. This law looks like we just take the accuser's word for it.
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You're still not getting it BS65.
"My current girlfriend has never once said 'yes' to me. She and I make out and it leads to sex. But I have never once heard her utter the word 'yes'."
That really speaks volumes about you.
The "yes" could come in any number of forms, but an incoherent or unconscious woman (or man) isn't alert, rational, or capable enough to give any form of consent.
If you don't realize that, then I feel sorry for any woman that would associate herself with you. And every woman should be warned not to drink around you.