Letters to the Editor
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Susan may not have nailed it, but she makes a valid point
In this discussion, the question is why weight should affect the hiring prospects of white women differently than other groups.
One of the very first posters suggested that thin white women may have a hiring advantage compared to other women, and this really should have been acknowledged by Lloyd. Is it inconceivable that young, attractive, white women may benefit more than other groups simply for being young, attractive, white women?
In addition, there may be valid reasons for hiring attractive people. They are probably measurably more appealing on calls. Potential customers likely tend to pay more attention to them during presentations, and probably want to be liked by them. These are all competitive advantages. For different groups, there are different standards of attractiveness. If you hadn't noticed, we haven't had too many bald presidents lately.
You can assume that a person who is not so attractive may do better work, but really most jobs aren't rocket science and most employees are pretty expendable.
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several things...
first, of course BMI doesn't make sense for everyone. all health care professionals who use it know that it doesn't apply to really athletic muscley bodies. it was never intended to. it was meant as a way to predict risk of weight-related (fat-related) diseases.
second, to the anonymous poster who took such offense to what i said, there are many, many functional drug addicts who also don't lie, manipulate, violate boundaries, etc. as a society we make examples of the ones who do, and say, "this is what it can lead to." i don't look at all drug addicts as thieving fiends, and i don't look at all obese people as piss bucket users, but i do kinda see both groups as health-compromised people, who are in denial about how close to the edge they are living. frankly, at least the drug-addicts don't have the balls to be self-righteous about it. honestly, when i was a smoker, i couldn't believe how many overweight people wagged their finger at me.
third, as it turns out, people do come to me for advice about their health, and in some cases, it was against policy to discuss a patient's weight with him or her, because mostly they don't want to hear it, and they will walk out the door and go to another clinic. why? because as a culture we have developed a completely irrational view of it. i don't actually, personally, care if people are fat. i am completely uninterested in the aesthetics of it. i care about it as a social and cultural phenomenon, and i would like to work toward a healthier society, generally, as a health care professional. we can't do that, though, if we continue to lie to each other about it.
finally, as thoughtsofsusan said, this thread should be about whether or not fat people should be paid less. of course not, but the fact is, beautiful people get paid just to be beautiful. they don't even have to work. we are a stupid, shallow society. that said, if we look at is as a bribe to get people to lose weight, i'm all for it, maybe not forever, but just as an experiment. i'm really curious about what it would take for americans to wake up about this epidemic. i doubt a bribe would work, though. we tried overtaxing smokers. most people didn't quit. it wasn't until it was banned in restaurants and bars, that it became unfashionable and people quit en masse. we have a weird sort of tangle with overweight/obesity, though. it's unfashionable (on TV, and evidently in the workplace), and unhealthy, yet we encourage each other's gluttony and sloth, and claim that it hurts people's self-esteem if we address it candidly. i don't get it.
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Obesity doesn't make people lie or manipulate or rage or violate boundaries.
Yes it does, they end up requiring people to take of them in ways that no one should have to for periods of time no one should have to for reasons no one should have to and impose huge costs on the health care system over a long period of time (people who aren't fat can take care up themselves until soon before they die, generally, Alzheimers being the major exception) and the damage and disruption that this totally unnecessary care causes to the people and families that have to provide it, combined with the endless justifications, lies and excuses regarding the gain and failure to lose the weight that is the cause of it all DOES INDEED BEAR A STRONG RESEMBLEANCE TO THE BEHAVIOR OF DRUG ADDICTS AND ALCOHOLICS. I HAVE KNOWN ALL THREE ONLY TOOOOO WELL.
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Teensy nails it
Teensy's second post nails why I find fat apologists so absurd - male, female, black, white, whatever. Of course, they should be treated with the same respect as any other human but encouraging the denial that there's a problem is just harmful for everyone. I don't see why the logic of this is such an affront to obese people.
An earlier poster also had a good point about probable flaws in the interpretation of this study. Thin, white women are the most attractive so they disproportionately get the most income, making the obese white women seem relatively shafted.
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@Anonymous 1:37
You're Fat Family Anonymous, aren't you? You have obviously been traumatized by your family, and there's some weird dynamic going on there. Whatever.
There are degrees, and if someone is 400 lbs and bedridden, making demands on other people, that is quite different from someone who is 20-30 lbs. overweight, exercises regularly, etc. (Believe it or not, you can be overweight and live a healthy lifestyle. Once your body metabolism reaches a set point, it will maintain it at the same caloric intake of a thin person. It's not usually impossible to lose *some* weight, but some people are genetically predisposed to being overweight...not 400 lbs, but they will never be lean.)
I'm all for morbidly obese people losing weight, but whatever cultural shaming is going on here, it is NOT WORKING.
So, Fat Family Anonymous, what do you suggest we do?
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you can't stop being black or disabled - fat is a choice
and continuing to make the choices that make you fat raise eyebrows about your decision-making skills and emotional health. This is legitimate.
It is rare that I have met an obese white woman who was perfectly comfortable in her own skin, had a balanced life, and did not wish to lose weight. Typically, obese white women want to be thinner, are full of self-hatred and hatred for people who don't 'accept them for who they are' - though they themselves don't! It's difficult to argue that someone who has put themselves in such a tough psychological corner is able to perform optimally as an employee.