or are you seriously claiming that the status women now in Moslem societies is the same as in the west.

"(though I just can't believe even a strict Muslim father would actually kill his daughter over this, no matter what the media would have you believe)."

You must not remember then the case of 16-year-old Palestina "Tina" Isa who was murdered by her Palestinian Muslim father in St. Louis in 1989 over basically the same issues. Tina was changing into Western clothes before going to school and her desire to behave as a "normal" American teen was causing a great deal of conflict within her family. When tina went to her Junior Prom her family showed up and dragged her from the dance. When her father, Zein Isa, found out that his daughter had defied him by taking a part-time job in a fast food restaurant and was dating an African-American teen he stabbed her to death while her Brazilian mother, Maria, a Roman Catholic, held her down. During the seven horrific minutes it took Tina to die her mother shouted, "Shut up!" to her daughters anguished pleas while her father commanded her to, "Die my daughter, die!" We know this because the FBI recorded the whole thing. It seems Zein Isa was a member of the Abu Nidal Organization, planning to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C. and the FBI had bugged his apartment. Zein Isa was sentenced to death but cheated Justice by dying of diabetes on Death Row in 1997. Maria Isa was sentenced to life in prison.

So believe what you will. It's happened before and it will happen again but it is not a "Muslim" problem. It is the problem of any system of belief that sees women as anything other than Equal Citizens Under the Law. Yeah, we hear a lot about "human rights" until it comes to women were suddenly it becomes a function of "culture." If an immigrant's, or anyone's, "culture" in in strict opposition to the culture of Freedom and Equality then yes, they do need to change and assimilate into a culture that has progressed beyond barbarism, Evangelical Xtians included.

Tracy Clark it seems has never lived in fear in her own dwelling/home. My 6 yr. old son lived a double life between my apt and his dad's home. The dad's girlfriend scared him to "death" by telling him things which he was NOT allowed to say to me his own mom. Once or twice when he would tell me, he begged me to not call them and expose what he had told me. I couldn't believe the panic in his voice or eyes. This went on for 9 months. During this time I tried to contact authority figures to deal with the father and girlfriend on neutral ground. Well, they made me out to be "the Crazy Woman" in all this. The helpful authorities said that if I couldn't stop causing trouble they would take my son from me. That was in May 2005. I halted all contact and decided to only note on paper what was happening. In July 2005, my 6 yr. old son was found "drowned" in the family pond. I was the only one to say that this was NO ACCIDENT. 3 weeks later, the police arrested the girlfriend, father and myself. I was detained for "the killing by drugs and alcohol of my own son. Not only was I still grieving, but now I was accused of premeditated murder. I was FINALLY able to prove that the girlfriend was framing me because I had DOCUMENTED EVERYTHING for the last 9 months. The girlfriend had been giving my son sleeping pills for at least 6 months and he had pills and alcohol ini his body upon autopsy.

Society FAILED BOTH OF US AND SHE IS STILL FREE to roam and if this had not happened to me I would never believe it. So Tracy, this must be delved into deeply. DO NOT treat it as just another unimportant crime. We need to know why, how etc.

This guy was unusual in that he killed his daughter because she wouldn't wear a hijab. Was he unusual in expecting his daughter to wear one? Isn't that oppressive in itself?

In some Islamic countries, stoning women who commit adutery, lashing women who go out with a non-familial male companion, and killing girls who date outside the clan, is the rule of the law.

When someone from such a state moves here, are we to expect they automatically change their beliefs, that they now think women should be allowed to wear what they want, drive, get jobs, etc?

I dont' assume that most Muslims are incapable of living in an open, non-islamic society. But, this guy, the people who want to kill Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Salman Rushdie, and people who think they can tell women to wear hijabs/burkhas/whatever, are barbarians. A country that invites them should understand it does so at the expense of the liberties of it's own citizens, particularly women.

If an American family moves to Togo or Palau or somewhere that women commonly walk around bare breasted are they oppressing their daughter horribly if they make her wear shirts?

Its a matter of modesty! People will think she wants sex if they can see her breasts! Etc.

There is nothing inherently oppressive about different standards of modesty in different places whether their inspiration be religious or cultural or whatever.

And when people immigrate from one place to another generational clashes are bound to happen.

No, its not oppressive in itself. Its plain old boring culture clash.

The problem is people murdering their children over culture clash.

Tacit acceptance? I am constantly puzzled at the veritable lack of outrage or even comment from supposed moderate Muslims. It's not supposed to be tolerant to criticize but come on. Are there any who overtly and strongly object to these kinds of behaviors? I do not see how non-muslims can have the impact of muslims taking some stands against some of these atrocities committed in the name of whom?