If women in this culture are hot and sweaty and whip off their shirts all heck breaks loose. Why are you not rushing to our aid? Why do we enslave ourselves like this?

Are women oppressed by having to wear shirts? That gives you a LOT of cultures to look down on. Nearly all of them.

It is a standard of modesty men are not expected to maintain. It is very much because of womens' sexuality and alluring nature. If women in this culture are hot and sweaty and whip off their shirts.

When I was fourteen I wasn't allowed to wear shirts that showed my bra strap. Do you look down on my Mother for that? Maybe you'd like her a little bit because she dosen't approve of "the stoning stuff" either? Maybe you could give her a chance?

Broadsheet is happy to criticize people who murder their children regardless of race color or creed. I'm not sure why you want more than that.

That professional repressed herself. Religion stops a thinking brain. We're not all like the "feminists" or "liberals" who give Islam a free ride. All religion is vomit, and this is part of the reason why.

Ms. Clark-Flory makes a rather grotesque logical sophistry in her discussion, when she moves from the objective *FACT* of the hijab's function as a symbol and method of oppression, to the *MODAL* claim about what is or is not *POSSIBLE*. The specific quote I have in mind is the following:

"But using her death to make a larger argument against the hijab seems willfully misguided and oppressive in its own right. If we were to proscribe anything with the possibility of being oppressive -- without making a distinction between actual and potential oppression -- we would have very little left in this world."

Note how Ms. Clark-Flory observes the modal distinction even as she tramples over it. There is no *meaningful* question about whether the hijab is "possibly" a symbol of oppression, since (the first rule of metaphysics) what is actual IS possible. What is perhaps more to the point is whether the hijab has any other purpose than the oppression of women.

On this matter, turning to the women who willfully don their own degradation is scarcely more reasonable than asking Stockholm Syndrome victims for insight into the sterling character traits of their kidnappers. The idea that the hijab is anything other than the most overtly vicious assault on the personhood of women is nothing but childish nonsense on stilts. Pretending otherwise is just the sort of cultural relativism that serves no other purpose than enabling the crypto-facsists that people like Ms. Clark-Flory nominally opposes.

Meant to link to it as well:

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/285180

The Toronto Star (Mississauga is in the greater Toronto area) did have a number of different viewpoints, including a number of Muslim women.

In an online article today:

Meanwhile, Muslim organizations continue to express outrage over the slaying.

"This is the type of tragedy that shakes you to your very core – as a person, as a parent, and as a Muslim," said Ansar Ahmed, of the Newmarket Mosque, in a statement. "This was a bright young girl whose only worry should have been friends and homework. Instead, it appears the last few weeks of her life were marred by anguish and conflict."

It's "truly bewildering" if the girl's feelings about the hijab played any role in her slaying, Ahmed added.

"Acts of faith, whatever they may be, have to come from within – they cannot be imposed on anyone, if they are, they are not true acts of faith," he said.

In a joint statement, the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Islamic Social Services Association and the Islamic Society of Toronto all urged "zero tolerance" for violence against women and domestic abuse.

"Muslims and Canadians of all faiths need to reflect on the realities of domestic abuse and take concrete steps to eliminate violence against women," it said.

Trudy, I agree, it is a culture clash. I actively side with the one where girls aren't forced or expected to wear any particular garb, especially when men aren't expected to.

If a culture thinks that women need to cover up in some way, whether it's for modesty, or out of hatred of women, I look down on that culture. I also don't like the stoning stuff either. Just kind of my personal preference.

I agree with Ramesees, it seems like broadsheet only wants to critisize certain groups and I expect it's because it's politically correct to dis christians but not islamic immigrants, even though in islamic countries, women are subjected to far worse things than abstinence education.

Interesting to note that for Broadsheet apparently multiculturalism has trumped feminism.

Here, let me show you the twisted logic that goes into this bizarre rationalization.

*There is no such thing as a bad culture. All societies are equally admirable and if one culture promotes freedom and one promotes subjugation, it's worth contorting our beliefs just so nobody gets any ideas that one culture is better than another! Diversity is more important than right and wrong, kids. We MUST NOT criticize any other cultures or societies. Well, except for those fundy asshole Christians - fuck them and the horse they rode in on.*

^^does that about sum it up?

Tacit acceptance? I am constantly puzzled at the veritable lack of outrage or even comment from supposed moderate Muslims. It's not supposed to be tolerant to criticize but come on. Are there any who overtly and strongly object to these kinds of behaviors? I do not see how non-muslims can have the impact of muslims taking some stands against some of these atrocities committed in the name of whom?

If an American family moves to Togo or Palau or somewhere that women commonly walk around bare breasted are they oppressing their daughter horribly if they make her wear shirts?

Its a matter of modesty! People will think she wants sex if they can see her breasts! Etc.

There is nothing inherently oppressive about different standards of modesty in different places whether their inspiration be religious or cultural or whatever.

And when people immigrate from one place to another generational clashes are bound to happen.

No, its not oppressive in itself. Its plain old boring culture clash.

The problem is people murdering their children over culture clash.