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Letters
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:00 AM

Britain in "moral collapse" over rape?

Conservative M.P. says there's a widespread belief that treating women like objects is "cool."

The letters thread is now closed.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:15 PM

Not so naive

Hip hop artists in the US have begun to acknowledge that their misogynistic lyrics fuel a misogynistic culture, and some have vowed to clean up their act. Since teens are more likely to listen to hip hop than to a PSA, the MP seems to have the right idea.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:16 PM

I've never understood the claim...

...that rape is some kind of "social norm" which is actively encouraged by society, which seems to be the general consensus I get about it from the feminist blogosphere.

But if that statement were correct, it would be acceptable to rape a screaming woman in full public view on Main Street and nobody would bother to do anything to stop it. Obviously, that isn't true.

So either feminists are completely unscrupulous about using overblown rhetoric to hype this topc, or... well, actually, I can't think of another possibility.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:22 PM

desperate demagogue

Standard populist posturing.

Low conviction rates have nothing to do with "hyper-sexualised" society, but everything to do with the unfortunate fact that rape is an inherently difficult crime to prove.

Lowering the burden of proof is a stupid and crass response to a difficult situation. It's unlikely to even serve as a deterrent.

By all means educate, publicise and try to change attitudes, but don't simply give up on the law when the going gets tough. That's weak and counter-productive.

Why would the leader of the opposition, desperate to gain ground over labour, ever think of proposing such a reactionary and populist policy? What possible reason could this vote chaser have? Answers on a postcard.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:25 PM

I agree

The whole premise sounds ludicrous. 1 in 2 guys?

That is, every other guy on the street thinking it is Ok to rape a girl in some circumstances. Even in caveman times this could not have been true, much less now.

Sounds like a feminist wet dream fantasy.

What are the women doing in that society to screw with men's heads so much that they would think it fair to rape a woman? No sane guy would consider it unless it was as a passive aggressive last resort revenge for something else that was entirely beyond the pale bad.

It does not add up at all. The whole story sounds bogus.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:38 PM

By the way...

Seeing as how Broadsheet went all completely loony about Duke U, I guess we really shouldn't be too surprised that they reacted to this news from the UK's "rape culture" with their predictable feminist-brand gullibility.

Oh lookie here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=493352&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490

"A woman who made eight separate false claims of rape or sexual assault has been spared jail."

Eight times, eh? Gee, I thought making a rape accusation was oh-so self-vilifying that women don't do them dishonestly?

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:41 PM

Oh yes....

Sounds like a feminist wet dream fantasy.

Oh yes. Cause the idea of misogyny being rampant is a sexual turn on for feminists (and whats with the sexualized metaphor anyways?).

No where does anyone actually look at what Cameron says (even though I doubt the sheer number). Guys presume that if a girl is being flirtatious that she is therefore asking for sex. Half of guys think its okay to have sex without clear cut consent in some cases. These statements are neither shocking, nor that far from the truth.

The log in the above commenter's eyes though, is the fact that they imagine some sort of rape scenario out of Law and Order. A sickened pervert, prowling central park, pouncing like a beast. The reality is, like most great sins, far more mundane. The person who has too many, and doesn't say no, but really doesn't say yes. The person who doesn't want to, but is put into a compromised emotional situation. These sorts of incidents are frequent, but often time do not calculate or compute as rape, for neither victim nor aggressor. But rape it is.

So would most prey at night? No. But the number of people who coax a hesitant yes out of someone? Fairly high.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 05:43 PM

At least he acknowledges it

While going after "the kids and their damn music" is typical Anglo-American conservative reaction these days, it strikes me that a generation ago the same sorts of guys who were in complete denial about how widespread sexual assault is to begin with.

So in some sense, aren't we seeing a significant hurdle already overcome in Tracy Clark-Flory's steep climb upward?

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 06:06 PM

Rapists acquittals.

So according to David Cameron, watching provocative rock videos makes everyone in the UK want to acquit rapists?

David Cameron could have blamed anything from patriarchal traditions and customs, to poor sexual education in schools, for the UK's long standing rape culture, but instead he decided to take his crusade against the comparatively recently invented Rock music video industry.

How do people like him get elected?

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 06:10 PM

1 in 2 guys believe there are circumstances in which it is OK to rape a woman.

"That is, every other guy on the street thinking it is Ok to rape a girl in some circumstances. Even in caveman times this could not have been true, much less now."

&

"No sane guy would consider it unless it was as a passive aggressive last resort revenge for something else that was entirely beyond the pale bad."

LOOK! THERE'S ONE NOW!

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 06:48 PM

Are women asking for it if they wear certain clothes? Well duh, of course they are!

Let's get real, all of you who think that no women are never asking for it if they wear certain clothes, raise your hands if you let your daughters play with Bratz dolls.

Raise your hands if you believe in public nudity.

Raise your hands if you believe males should be able to walk down the street in only their underwear.

Raise your hands if you think females should be able to walk down the street in only their underwear.

Society has already determined that there are times you need to wear appropriate clothes.

Do you deserve to be raped if you wear the wrong clothes? Of course. Rape is a heinous crime and should be severely punished.

Are you asking for trouble by wearing certain clothes? Are you truly asking for "it?" Yeah, goddamn right you. If you walk around this world thinking you're king and no one can touch you you are asking for trouble, and often times, trouble has a way of finding you.

If you act like some idiot wearing trashy revealing clothes, and you engage in all sorts of sexual banter and thus represent yourself as interested in sexual activities then yeah, expect some asshole to be an asshole and ya know what, your only justification is that you're clearly a fucking retard.

Otherwise, grow the hell up.

If you're going to insist on a world where men that say anything sexual to you can be fired, while you can wear anything or say anything, expect reality to punch back at you, in this case, by helping you understand you really aren't as invulnerable as you pretend.

Is this news to men? Everyday we walk around expecting to be ripped off by muggers and fucked over by the man. We know where our wallets are. We watch our tongues.

It ain't right, but it's reality.

If you insist on wearing trashy clothes, and engaging in sexual banter and you demand protection that no one can guarantee, than maybe you aren't really ready to be in the real world, and you need to be kept barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen.

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