Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

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Letters
Monday, October 29, 2007 12:00 AM

Harassment by design

Getting groped on the subway? New toys can help rebuff unwanted advances.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Monday, October 29, 2007 03:42 PM

harassment in Japan? ya don't think?

I'm sorry, but the final sentence of this article, comparing harassment in Japan to harassment in New York, is just mind-boggling. It's like comparing discrimination against women who wear revealing clothing in America to discrimination against women wearing revealing clothing in Yemen. In Japan it's pretty much normal to get felt up on the subway. I've seen a Japanese porn site devoted to men who have sex with women on the subway, with the women looking perhaps a little uncomfortable as if maybe they should protest, but not moving or making eye contact or otherwise acknowledging that a guy standing behind them is putting his penis in them and another guy is filming it. Even if the videos are faked, they are presented as reality, and tell a truth about people's expectations. Schoolgirls complain about wading through seas of hands every day to get to school. This is a serious cultural problem.

Japanese women are trained not to make a scene. I have a Japanese friend who still can't bring herself to smile broadly without hiding behind her hand after years in America. It's all well and good to say "They should scream for the police, not deal with it quietly!" but baby steps are what's needed here. If an American woman calls attention to a man molesting her, she can be reasonably sure that bystanders will be angry at the man. A Japanese woman doesn't have that luxury.

Monday, October 29, 2007 04:03 PM

Holla Back is a bullshit vigilantiism -- a false accusation haven

Holla Back will accept anonymous posts from cellphones with pictures of unidentified people and then print the unverified claims of bad behavior on the part of people that are identified with photos.

1) Claims are unverified

2) Claims are anonymous

3) Alleged "oppressor" has no recourse, no way to determine ID of accuser.

I hope they are sued out of existence.

As a member of the 4th estate, as a citizen of the United States, you should be embarrassed about Holla Back, and not cheering them on.

It is typical that modern mainstream Broadsheet Feminists would support a cite that promotes false or unprovable allegations.

It makes it worse, that they flatly state they won't display posts about the bad behavior of women. I was with my 12 year old niece at a pier when two "women" walked by and asked her when her baby was due. This of course, they would not print.

Congratulations Eryn, for helping enable oppressive street harassment, and encouraging false accusations. You are officially part of the problem. Maybe one day you can become part of the solution.

Monday, October 29, 2007 04:06 PM

Holla Back is a realistic response?

No, a good kick (or harsh grab) to the balls is a realistic response. Whining to a website is far too polite.

fight fire with fire. It's immensely more satisfying.

Monday, October 29, 2007 04:22 PM

Get a gun and use it . . .

You take away anybody's ability to defend themselves and the weak suffer the most. That would be women in Japan.

This is a strong argument for armaments. I dare anyone to grope a woman in VA, where concealed carry is legal. When your balls meet the angry end of a 9mm, your groping days will be long gone.

I wonder: how many feminists favor gun control?

Monday, October 29, 2007 05:11 PM

I call bullshit

I've seen a Japanese porn site devoted to men who have sex with women on the subway, with the women looking perhaps a little uncomfortable as if maybe they should protest, but not moving or making eye contact or otherwise acknowledging that a guy standing behind them is putting his penis in them and another guy is filming it.

Bullshit.

Monday, October 29, 2007 06:15 PM

You gave a red star to Allie for her clearly bullshit posting about japanese porn involving women being raped on a subway and not making any fuss about that?

Just what won't you give a red star too?

Monday, October 29, 2007 06:34 PM

you can read, right?

Did you read the part where I suggested that the videos were faked?

Reading is power, people.

Monday, October 29, 2007 06:41 PM

Remember, we're talking about Japan

I lived in Tokyo for a few years in the late '80s (during the so-called Japan Bubble) and I rode the legendary packed subways along with everyone else. I was around 30 and I stood out: I was tall, I had long blonde-ish hair, blue eyes; I was un-mistakably a gaijin. Friends and I discussed the semi-regular assault by subway perverts -- gropers, etc. Finally we promised one another that the next time it happened we'd loudly call out "Skeb-bei!" (the slang Japanese term for pervert)and point at the offender, convinced that this would bring our fellow commuters to our defense.

Soon after, one night, riding the train on my own, a skeb-bei proceeded to do his thing, and I fulfilled my promise. "Skeb-bei!" I called to the car full of stylish young women and pimply students and weary salary men. Spurred by their non-response, I repeated my pronouncement several times. The groper withdrew his hand and stuck his nose in his comic book, everyone else just gazed into the middle distance. There was consensus on that train: I was the freak.

I agree it's a terrific idea to be vocal about these things, but in Japan you'd have to start much further back and re-do more elemental aspects of the culture -- vis a vis patriarchy, shame, insider/outsider mentality, group consensus, etc. I think the one-to-one approach by electronic display is a great way to get started.

Monday, October 29, 2007 06:53 PM

crime in japan

While I can't speak on the 'harassment' issue, violent crime and assualts (including sexual assault) has actually been on the DECLINE in Japan over the past few years.

Which makes the whole "dress as a vending machine to escape violent predators" thing a bit fascinating. Why, when statistics are showing crime is on the decline, is there so much hysteria in Japan over mugging/sexual assault? Is it the same kind of "be afraid, be very afraid... the terrorists/criminals/druglords are out to get you... better pay us lots of money to protect you" kind of mentality running rampant in the states currently?

While you might have some jerk think its ok to touch you in a japanese subway, you're a lot less likely to get murdered, raped, or assaulted than you are in NYC. Snd they don't sell vending machine outfits in the Big Smoke... they sell mace and personal tazers.

Monday, October 29, 2007 06:57 PM

Yeah, you said, there is PORN THAT DOES THIS, and even if it is fake, I INTERPRET IT AS REALITY!!!!

Eleventyone Babe.

If you're going to get your panties in a knot, try it on something based in reality.

If you're going to claim there is japanese porn devoted to actual real life rape on subways, you need citations.

If you're going to claim some imaginary porn film you think you may have seen is accepted as reality, you need to show the film exists, and then show articles or whatever showing it is taken seriously.

Otherwise your're just a bullshit artist, and not a very convincing one at that.

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