Letters to the Editor
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HAA- Dave Chappelle Was Right!
"Now, bend over and spread 'yer cheeks for identification!"
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How did the T get in LGBT? This is how.
A couple days ago, I was trying to think of a concise reply to John Aravosis's column, "How did the T get in LGBT?". This story is it.
Ms. Harris encapsulates it even further in one sentence: "In other words, your boss can't say, 'I'm not firing you because you're queer, I'm firing you because you look queer.'"
That's why the "T" belongs in LGBT. That's why sexual identity _and_ gender expression need to be included in anti-discrimination laws. Thanks for crystallizing it.
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I'm glad you covered this, Ms. Harris, but this was news in the wayback days.
And the queer blogs covered it then. The only new news is the lawsuit. Still, better late than never.
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How you dress
Seems to me that the problem is really how you look to other users of the bathroom. If I am in the men's room and a woman comes in, she may explain that the women's loo is out of order or something, fair enough, but if I point out that she is in the wrong place and she whips out a male ID, I don't think this is acceptable at all. She/he should go in the ladies' if that is what she/he looks like.
You can't have much sympathy for someone who is bringing problems on him/her/itself because of the way they choose to dress and present themselves. In a lot of countries they would be arrested. Fortunately the US is fairly sympathetic to these unfortunate mixed-up people, but there is a limit.
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@Holly
... right, which is exactly why I thought it was weird that the Times seemed to think it was the first time something like this had ever happened.
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Well actually Amerigo,
the problem can be more complicated than just "what you look like." For instance, there is a person who comes to my place of work who dresses as a woman but is still obviously a man. To watch him walk into the women's bathroom is a highly disconcerting expericence for many of the women here regardless.
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Brought it on herself?
Thanks Lynn for this post. Yes, it's old news, but I was appalled at how little mainstream press coverage it got when it happened a few months ago--it was mostly relegated to a snippet or sidebar item in the local papers. I'm so happy she's suing.
And Amerigo...barf. This woman looks like a man; there was a photo of her published this morning. She didn't set this up by dressing like a man--if she grew her hair out and wore a dress, she'd still look masculine. Then someone like you would complain he/she was uncomfortable with the transvestite in the ladies' room. What, if she wants to use the ladies' room, she should get plastic surgery to make everyone else comfortable, regardless of which restroom is designed for her plumbing?
Surely even you have things about you that you can't help?
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The Men's Room - The Women's Room - The Bathroom Fighting Ground
This has become an issue in NYC bother. In the gay press there were articles about transexual and transvestites being arrested for using the "wrong" bathroom, for example by the MTA. How one dresses is a signal about who they are, and how they want the world to see them. Frankly when a man dresses up as a woman, or a woman dresses up like a man - not cutesy fashion bits - I mean the works - why should they find it surprising that there will be trouble inside multiple person bathrooms?
On a similar topic - there's been talk that its somehow "ok" that when there is a long line at the women's room, and no line exists at the men's room - that it is somehow "ok" for women to invade the men's room. I do not buy it, and do not agree. If women can walk into the men's room and not be arrested or questioned - how come a man would be arrested or stopped in a such a similar situation? Its not that I want ever to be in the women's room - nope. Its the assumption that one's own personal needs should trump the rules.
Some places in addition to having a men's room, a women's room also have "family rooms" or handicapped bathrooms, or single person bathrooms - which cause much less problems.
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re: To watch him walk into the women's bathroom is a highly disconcerting expericence for many of the women here regardless.
I don't care if HE did buy a dress, HE should go to the men's restroom; I sure wouln't let him in the women's room at my office! IT isn't that he's a crossdresser, but that he's a man and in this culture, men do not go into women's restrooms, even if they went to macy's a got a dress. mascara does not make you a woman, so you still need to go to the men's room.
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WTF?
She is female. Period. She isn't making any effort to genderfcuk. Even if you think she looks masculine, she's biologically female, she identifies as female, and that's her natural appearance. There's no question of which bathroom she should have been in. Where transgender people should go to the bathroom is irrelevant, because this woman has no other possible gender identity. She is female.
The restaurant is so obviously in the wrong it's ridiculous.
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And in Greenwich Village, Too!
I'd throw the book at these folks; give them the company! The most offensive part of it all was the attorneys' questions, asking her if she had any male organs or intended to have a surgical procedure to obtain them.
The woman seems to have been remarkably phlegmatic through it all. I know if the roles had been reversed (heh), I would certainly have been less understanding!
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@Amerigo, who wrote:
"You can't have much sympathy for someone who is bringing problems on him/her/itself because of the way they choose to dress and present themselves. In a lot of countries they would be arrested. Fortunately the US is fairly sympathetic to these unfortunate mixed-up people, but there is a limit."
Amen, brother. I was walking past a high school yesterday and I saw all these boys wearing earrings and necklaces. They had product in their hair and many had those girly highlights. In other words, they were light in the loafers and I don't give a good God-damn if half of them played football. Naturally, I had to do what any God-fearing, flag-waving bigot would do. I had to go down to the bar and form a posse so that we could jump those girly boys in the appropriate 3-1 ratio that all bigots employ.
"Please, they begged," as we bashed them with baseball bats. "Why are you doing this?"
"There is a limit to gender non-conformity in this country!" I said.
"Have some sympathy," said another, but it sounded like, "Hab sum simpudy," since I'd just busted his teeth.
"You brought this on yourself because of the way you choose to dress and present yourself," I said, and I swung again.
Ker-ack!
Next time, Amerigo, join the party! 'kay?