Woman says no. Man proceeds. That's rape.

Cosmo prints stupid article.

Shocking.

Remember this old excuse which puts the bame on women:

"It is easier for a woman to run with her skirt up thann a man with his pants down."Sounds like the same old excuses for rape are being repackaged.

Men need to understand that No means No. Women need to understand that if you get yoursleves in these type of situtations, it is harder to make men understand that No really means No.

... own it.

... eat it.

Pick one.

It's a Saturday night, and I'm driving home drunk. I stumble out of my car, leave the keys in the ignition and the car door open, with my wallet and laptop on the front seat. I go into my apartment, go to sleep, and wake up to find that my car has been stolen.

I am a victim of a crime. The person who stole my car was 100% in the wrong and should be prosecuted and thrown in jail.

Does that mean no one should be able to tell me I acted like a total moron, and that my actions made it a thousand times more likely that my car would be stolen? Or that maybe, just maybe, drinking to the point of incoherence is a bad idea?

It's possible my car would have been stolen that night anyway, even if I hadn't been a drunken moron. But I am still responsible for giving the criminal his golden opportunity, when it was in my power to retain my faculties that evening.

Any guy who has sex with a woman who has had more than a few drinks is a rapist. Men know better. They know that the unwritten rule is that you don't sleep with drunk women. Alcohol lowers inhibitions enough that a woman who would have said “no” will say “yes.”

Anyone who tells you different is either lying or deluding themselves. Just because the rapist is also drunk is no excuse. We don’t excuse drunk driving just because the driver was drunk when he or she decided to get behind the wheel.

If I ever have a daughter, she will not be allowed to read Cosmo.

probably the guy won't go to jail in those cases, although that does happen, but unless he is exceptionally rich or "special" in some other way he will likely be a social pariah.

since this condition also impairs her judgement and causes her to say yes when she would have otherwise said no.

If she says "yes" after two forties, it is NOT rape. If she is out cold after a couple of jaeger shots and someone has sex with her, then it IS rape. No consent was given. Sorry, but there's a line somewhere. If every guy that had sex with a drunk or tipsy female was a rapist, almost every American male would need to be behind bars. Do you think that if a guy does a couple of keg stands and then has sex with his sober girlfriend, that she raped him? Even though he was completely into it? Please. Don't make every sex act out to be an attack. That takes away from the validity and seriousness of real attacks, where consent could not be give, was never given, was ignored or overcome by force.

Side note: how long is it going to take for someone to post that stupid list of "if he asks more than twice and she gives in, then it's rape"?

Causation and correlation. Does Flory know the difference?

Hookups in sketchy situations don't "cause" rape, but they do predictably "correlate" with increased rape and place the participants outside the bounds of what law enforcement and evidentiary standards are capable of adjudicating. It's by nature in a gray area where the likelihood of rape is increased, and defense, both physical and legal, are more difficult.

Also, placing oneself outside the reasonable and known limits of law enforcement is to some extent taking on a responsibility for for whatever may come of that, or at least removing law enforcement from the responsibility of rectifying the situation.

For example, if one is into S&M, and frequently incurs injury consensually with strangers, it will be harder to claim rape later, as evidence of injury is not necessarily, or even likely, the result of non-consensual acts; as would otherwise be a reasonable assumption with someone who never incurs injury consensually.

To most people I'd think this is patently obvious. But not to Flory or her Dworkin-like fans.

yeah...i don't get it either. if a guy had one too many and drifted in and out of awareness and mumbled "no" a couple times while another man stuck it in him, it'd be rape, right? even if they'd hung out all night drinking and playing video games in their underpants. even if...well, even if anything. it would be rape. why there's some sort of gray area when one is a woman is sort of confounding.

anyway the whole article is ridiculous. rape existed even in the eisenhower era when ladies wore white gloves and were the gatekeepers of chastity. people like the dumbass who wrote the article still found ways to blame the women though, just like they do today.

Drunk to point of incapacitation is a very dangerous state.

Most men know to avoid sex with women that are obviously wasted.

Women who are totally drunk place themselves at high risk of being raped and their potential partners are at high risk of committing a non-premeditated rape. A last second no is going to be hard to accept if you are drunk and sexually aroused.

A mid intercourse no is going be even harder to accept. And a next morning no, just plain sucks.

And that's why the unwritten rule about not having first-time sex with totally drunk chicks.

when they say that the alcohol forced them to do it.

the whiners deserve it.

I read about this, and commented on it, on another blog. My conclusion at this point is that it's usually pretty clear whether or not something is rape - making the term "gray rape" more or less bullshit - but there's a tendency to carry this into the "all rapes should be considered morally and legally the same" territory, which forces a variety of complex situations into a binary box. I think it's easy to imagine a variety of scenarios where men behave badly, and criminally, but shouldn't be punished in the same manner as if they had committed a violent, forceful rape.

And for the writer of "all drunk sex is rape": I don't even know where to start with something as silly as that. We're still responsible and can still make decisions - there comes a point from the use of alcohol where someone loses their ability to consent, but it certainly isn't at "drunk".