Letters to the Editor
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Um...
in spite of what the paper article says, it seems very clear that the behavior described, if accurate, is not from gay onlookers, but from homophobes acting as they think or want to pretend gays act
I'm not sure about San Diego, but in the gay pride parades I've attended baudy sexual innuendo was part and parcel. The whole point is to have a chance to flaunt your sexuality loudly and proudly. But I think most gays would be horrified to know they were shouting the sexual innuendo at people who were ashamed and embarassed by it.
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Yes if you do, No if you don't
Funny when you think about all the Italians, Asians, African Americans, Haitians, Dominicans, and other non-Irish police officers who march in the Saint Patrick's Day Parade in NYC, while gays are banned from participating (except when it comes to being forced to pay for it with our tax dollars).
Maybe parades should be for anyone who wants to march in them, and no one who doesn't. Works for me.
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oops I post before I read d_demchuck
So yeah. What he said.
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Go Firefighters
The firefighters have had their rights violated. If I were a straight guy being forced to parade myself in front of a bunch of gay men I would feel highly uncomfortable, too. No one should be placed in an environment where they feel they are being sexually harassed, and they most certainly should not be put there by their employers! And why on earth was it necessary for these men to march in the parade? Couldn't the squad have marched minus these 3 or 4 men?
I am of course assuming they are all straight men.
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Workers' Rights
It is obvious attending this parade has nothing to do with fighting fires. No one working should be forced to attend something they object to, especially like this bogus PR event. Anyone can see these workers were used as a "fireman" in the Village People sense - a bad joke.
Additionally, if the comments are accurate, and they sound absolutely so, it is even more obnoxious. It could be construed as subjecting them to sexual harassment as part of their 'job.'
They have a prima facie legal claim against the city. Workers rights have to be respected. This does not negate gay rights at all. I am a union man and I hope the union grieves against the city.
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Yes, it is wrong
I fully support Gay right, including marriage, and adoption. To me it's silly to even argue about it, people are people and to deny someone benefits or rights because of whom she or he falls in love with is wrong.
The majority of my friends are also gay, as are many relatives. I'm as comfortable as anyone being around Gay people. A group of Gay people or straight people, it doesn't matter to me.
That said, I'd be very uncomfortable in a Gay parade. Not because I have anything against anyone being Gay, but because quite often overt expressions of sexuality are part of the dynamic of the parade. I understand why this is the case, and I understand how it makes some people feel more liberated.
The problem is that overt and especially crude expression of sexuality make me uncomfortable. The source or who it's directed to do not matter. If a bunch of women were in the crowd yelling, "Some me your hose" and "How about some mouth to mouth" I'd be uncomfortable.
I don't tolerate crude sexual jokes around me, and I don't tolerate people being objectified, so why should I be forced to be in a position that makes me subject to unwelcome sexual expressions when the task has nothing to do with my job?
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Sexual Harassment? Puh-lease!
Yes, the men should not have been forced to march in the parade (as opposite the intentions of any pride parade as I can imagine). Yes, calling the guys "assholes" was startlingly rude. Why does the San Diego gay community have an issue with firefighters?
But it is not sexual harassment? Please lose the gender-neutral "all things to all sexes" approach. Guys are generally more sexually aggressive, and women more reserved. To a woman, yes hearing such a thing from an unwanted source is harassment. To men, no. I can't imagine any man really feeling victimized by such language—and that doesn't sound like it was the case here. They were forced into something they didn't want, and that noboday else wanted either. The situation was tense and they go pissed. Clearly this mistake should not be repeated. But harassment? Get real.
And I should add that I do think there are instances of sexual harassment men face, or an individual man might face. I just don't think the sexes repsond to language and feel persecuted by language the same way.
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Harrassment?
Harrassment? Though I've not been a participant, I've been to a few Gay Pride parades in Vancouver and I've never witnessed any such thing.
Comments like "show me your hose" sound more like teasing remarks - basically harmless
fun rather than hateful and hurtful like harrassment would normally be defined.
C'mon, lighten up. Gay pride parades are not solemn events.
That being said, I tend to side (somewhat) with the objecting firemen. Nobody should be forced to attend an event that they disagree with, though their homophobia is disturbing.
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And clearly my editing skills go down when I write in from work!
Sorry for misspellings and odd punctuation. Hope the though still gets through.
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Pollister
The remarks aren't sexual harrasment.
Being forced to be subjected to the remarks as a requirement for your job is.
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Context
A problem here is that we only know the story as reported, so readers are having to fill in a lot of blanks. Someone mentioned that firefighters have to attend a lot of crappy parades; if that's correct, it changes things.
Attendees of a parade are going to have very little idea that firemen in attendance aren't, y'know, the gay firemen from the department. "Show me your hose!" has a very different meaning depending on whether it's being directed at a fellow gay guy or at a deeply uncomfortable straight guy.
"Fuck firemen!"... well, I'd have to hear the tone in which it was said. There's very little chance that that isn't what it sounds like. That's not okay.
That said, I don't believe the city of San Diego is responsible for the fact that some people behaved inappropriately. Nor is it responsible for some of the firemen feeling that they were in a hostile environment because, generally speaking, they weren't. Queer folk generally like firefighters about as much as everybody else.
Being ordered by one's job to participate in a parade is the direct intersection between one's job and reality. My concern is that the men were placed in a context in which they would likely be assumed as gay and, thus, get treated as gay men. This might be educational, but is more likely to be scary.
I won't even try to open the can of worms that is the difference between gay->gay, man->woman, gay man->straight man harrassment. Unless it's workplace and there's a power dynamic involved... you don't have other implicit considerations like the possibility of being overpowered. A sharp "no" and a roll of the eyes is all I need to fend off some troll wanting to see my hose. It SHOULD be all a straight man needs, too, but I understand that it's more complicated than that. A straight guy relatively cool with gays is going to experience additional discomfort trying to figure out how to turn the guy down without being offensive, and a straight guy not cool with gays is going to have an even tougher time.