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Letters
Tuesday, August 7, 2007 12:00 AM

A move that's likely to fail

New York City considers banning the words "bitch" and "ho."

The letters thread is now closed.

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:27 AM

Santa not allowed in New York?

Really, what is New York going to do during Christmas?

Throw Santa in jail after a hearty Ho Ho Ho? Fine him?

Such measures do nothing but make a mockery of justice. Someone trying to outlaw a word deserves a bag of coal from old Saint Nick.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:27 AM

Yeah, they should...

...have enough other problems to deal with, that is. I'm pretty sure there are better ways for the NYC council to use their time than banning words they can't really ban.

Wow, you don't say. Bitch is a mean word? Shocker. How about doing something concrete? Why not fund a center for girls from disadvantaged backgrounds that helps them develop goals and become confident, strong, educated women? Jesus, at least that might lead to some change.

What a bunch of idiots.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:27 AM

gendered insults

It's true that many insults are based on female body parts (cunt, etc), though it seems a little questionable to call son-of-a-bitch gendered, since it only applies to males.

But there are also normal epithets that come from male bits: dick, prick, cocksucker (antigay, maybe?).

I think it's that private parts are considered naughty, and therefore lend themselves to epithets. That applies to private acts as well -- fuck, shit, etc.

The only one that stands out to me is bitch. I can't think of another case where someone gets directly compared to an animal, and this one applies to only women. Possibly cow, but that's much more rare -- but again applies only to women.

So I agree that women are singled out by bitch, but I'm not convinced by the body-part ones, since those seem to apply to everyone.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:48 AM

gendered insults?

What about the whole 'men are pigs' thing? How about things like dog, worm, toad, even lizard and gnat. Pigfucker is another good one. All of them insults I would think of mostly for use on men. I guess pigfucker is neutral, but not how I use it.

Also, 'Capitalist running dog' always amused me.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:48 AM

I'm all for it

The NAACP had a burial for the N-word recently.

I like it as far as getting people to talk about the use of these kinds of words. Banning is a "symbolic gesture" but even symbolic gestures can be useful.

Why is "bitch" used so often, in so many ways - when we've got dickheads running the country into the ground (oh yeah, and running Iraq into the ground too...2 countries for the price of one!)

You'd think in this political context, "dick" would move "bitch" out of the top spot, but it hasn't.

Why is that, I wonder? Why aren't we calling everyone dicks?

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:51 AM

Misconceptions

If you think "bitch" is an epithet applied exclusively to women, you are incorrect. "Bitch" may be applied primarily to women in straight culture, but in gay circles, it's gender-neutral.

"Pussy" is used almost exclusively to refer to men, by both straights and gays.

"Cunt" is used almost exclusively to refer to women, by both straights and gays.

"Dick," "dickhead," "prick," and "motherfucker," are used fairly exclusively against men, by both straights and gays.

Somebody's tilting at windmills here.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:53 AM

What are you bitching about?

Symbolic gestures are hilarious. Here is one of my favorites:

Loretta: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

Reg: But... you can't have babies.

Loretta: Don't you oppress me!

Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan, you haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?

[Stan/Loretta starts to cry.]

Judith: Here! I-I've got an idea. Suppose that you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb — which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' — but that he can have the right to have babies.

Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:14 AM

Ok then

I can still call you a cocksucker ho.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:15 AM

Re: gendered insults

Target, "bitch" is often applied to men in the straight world; of course, its power comes from the idea that feminizing a man is a vile insult. Same thing with "pussy." It's particularly used by men who like to think of themselves as straight but say things to other men like, "In prison, you'd be my bitch." Personally, I think guys like that have some ... issues ... but that's neither here nor there.

As far as other animal comparisons go, "pig" and "ape" are almost exclusively applied to men. I agree that neither of these has the power that "bitch" does.

Anyway ... it's absurd. You can't make these words go away by banning them; the only way to make them be used (or used in that way, at least) less often is by the far harder work of changing society, and that's not something the NYC city council is going to accomplish on its own. It is very, very rare these days to hear "nigger" used as an actual insult; yeah, as a white person I cringe when I hear black people calling each other that, but I know it's not meant the way it would be if a KKK'er said it. (The one time I was addressd that way, by a black person, I wasn't quite sure what to say, so I just let it slide.) The last time anyone called me "kike" was 20+ years ago, and even then it seemed too anachronistic to be seriously insulting -- and no one can deny that there was a time, well within living memory, when that was a very powerful word indeed! I still hear "spic" and "gook" occasionally, but not often.

Why is this? It's not because the words have gone away. It's because we as a society have decided that open displays of racism are no longer acceptable; if we can do the same for sexism, great, but stupid word bans aren't the way to do it. There are a lot of racial and ethnic insults you just won't hear anymore at all -- when was the last time you heard someone called "jigaboo" or "wop" or "mick" as anything but a joke? -- and we can hope that "bitch" (except as a word for a fertile female dog, I mean) and "ho" will one of these days sound just as archaic.

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