Letters to the Editor
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Bring on the Moderators!
That first post was so inappropriate I was actually sort of shocked. So anonymous cowards, if these letters areas become moderated or anonymous blocked, you have no one to blame but yourselves. You want someone to talk to your sister like that?
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Men in fur top hats make me hot!
Um...not so much.
My daughter (10) asked me what what I thought was so funny. I told her I would laugh at a guy dressed like that. And then tell him to buzz off. He just is trying too hard!
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Wow... that's so disgusting.
Using some kind of psychological manipulation to pick up women is creepy, period.
And hey, Anonymous, the idea that feminism has somehow forced men to resort to trickery is not only misogynistic, it's absurd.
I'm a feminist and I can tell you that what I find attractive is not having my self-esteem torn down or an aggressive "macho" guy, but someone who relates to me in an honest way. What's sad is that the real problem is that the men who resort to this method probably just need to build up their OWN self esteem and realize that instead of chasing merely "beautiful" women, they ought to make an effort to meet someone who shares their interests and values. When they find such a person, they need only treat her with respect and love, and that will be enough.
Men who think they need to use manipulation are, at heart, just afraid they don't have what it takes. So sad.
And as an aside, all straight men and all straight women are not the same. WE all ave our turn-ons and turn-offs. The idea that there is somehow some universal, fail-safe method for picking someone up is too ridiculous for words.
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It's sort of like The Rules for guys...
My old roommate used to read a bunch of these pickup artist manuals. I used to get really annoyed at the tactics suggested, since some of them can be either sleazy or sexist.
But really, I think the ones who get most victimized by this are men. They have to pay a lot of money to buy these materials and take these seminars. Half the advice is the common sense stuff you can get from your buddies, and the other half doesn't seem to work that well in practice. Or at least it didn't for my roommate.
So it's sort of like The Rules and all the other million self-help books that sap money off of frustrated women. Which I guess makes things equal between the genders, though it might be more positive if no gender had books like this aimed at it.
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LydiaS: I want to make sure I understand this
And hey, Anonymous, the idea that feminism has somehow forced men to resort to trickery is not only misogynistic, it's absurd.
So what you are saying, is that if I hold certain views towards feminism, I hate all women, is that right?
Or if I think that in response to feminism, men might have changed how they interact with women, I hate all women, is that right?
This word misogyny, you use it a lot, but I do not think it means what you think it means.
By the way LydiaS, when you take a breath from shrieking "misogyny misogyny misogyny" (you sound like Steve Ballmer by the way, with the same sweaty armpits), (http://www.google.com/search?q=developers+developers)anyway, when you get a breath, you may wish to reread my letter. I never once said feminists forced this. I said feminists identified that nice guys need more self-confidence and here is a class that teaches that. How is that trickery?
It's not a whole lot different than visualization techniques. And it's not a whole lot different than discussing the best ways to get a raise, or the best ways to get your husband/boyfriend to rotate your tires or change your oil or take you to a chick flick or marry you.
LydiaS, I assume you never do any of those things. Never read any of the Cosmo articles, etc., on how to speak to other people.
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I can already tell when I'm being manipulated.
Don't need an instruction booklet or a TV show. It's fairly likely that if the real Michelle had been IMing with Mr. Handful, she would have known exactly what was going on when he goaded her about what a princess she was.
You know, that story about the guy posing as his babysitter creeps me out way more than the sad manipulation skills book and companion television show. What kind of person would agree to do that?
I have always been rather naive in this way, but the idea that people think they can pick people up by deceiving and manipulating them and then go on to have a healthy relationship is just so counterintuitive I don't know where to start. If you're picking somebody up in a bar, you're both playing a fun, dangerous, one-night-stand game, and that's fine. But if you're actually trying to find a partner to have a relationship with, and you're starting out with manipulation and deception, you need to take a giant step backward and start again with the other foot forward.
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The Problem with Anonymous' Rationale
...is that he(most likely a he) is taking the experiences gleaned from his or his friends' social/romantic interactions with women, or what he's read about it in magazines, or heard in comedy bits, etc., extrapolating it and then applying it to gender relations as a whole. The fact that some say there is a sort of equal balance of dynamics in a male/female interaction of this type(where both male and female have roles that they play and power positions that they assume) means that there is a de facto equality that exists; that there is no gender disparity because we each have power in different ways. There really is no need for Feminism after all, as this power balance applies to all aspects of male/female interaction, whether it be in business, education, politics, or what-have-you.
It's the same justification that Ice-T made for pimps in the movie American Pimp; that girls are out there running the same type of game every night, hustling men for their dollars. When everybody's hustling everybody else, a pimp is just more organized at looking out for his.
Completely devoid of any historical, socio-economic, or political context, maybe that makes sense. When gender relations exist in a narrowly defined vacuum, everybody's equal.