Letters to the Editor
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Melthough
I am sorry you feel there is no such thing as a neutral position. Clearly your us vs. them attitude goes deep. If you dont believe a study can be completed fairly by a man or a woman, why not a study where the researchers are made up of both sexes ? Your cynicism is showing.
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Re: H0tr0d
The study did control for negotiation type. The first two experiments in it had participants give ratings based on paper backgrounds of fictional candidates, which only differed in terms of candidate gender and whether or not they tried to negotiate. In the third, where a video was used, scripts were used so that negotiation styles were again controlled (though this might leave body language open for interpretation, depending on the actors). The fourth was done just to see if men and women differed in likelihood to try and negotiate.
Interestingly, women were only less likely to negotiate if they were told an evaluator was male. This offers the possibility of a negative feedback loop, and it's hard to identify which comes first. However, women did identify a likelihood of negative consequences that the first three experiments endorsed, indicating that apprehension mght not be unfounded. Unfortunately, longitudinal studies are costly, time consuming and have an exceptionally high attrition rate in participants. Cross sectional studies like this might be the best option.
I don't think Bowles was trying to say that the studies were unanimous as much as she was trying to say that the individual experiments in the study all agreed and supported a lot of previous research. If she wasn't, then it's even more unfortunate because it undermines a potentially valid position. Ultimately, in the study she does what everybody does, what we're taught to do: discuss directions for future research, because she concedes this study was not perfect.
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The idea
that the reason for the pay gap is that women are less agressive than men in asking for raises is absurd and a classic straw man argument. Women make less because they work less. Period. There are many reasons why they work less than men, but the pay gap is explained in its entirety by that fact. The vast majority of workers don't bargain for pay in any case. They take what they're given.
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Right
it is easier for women to bitch and moan and BLAME MEN (shredding society, truth, and decency in the process) than to put up with the minor inconvenience of being thought 'not so nice'.
I have news for you ladies, many of you are not so nice for many other reasons, such as your subliminal but socially sanctioned hatred of men-- but I know, men do not matter anyway to you. That is, unless we serve you.
As it's been said hundreds of times, I will say it again. Women have CHOICES, unlike men. Name one man who chooses to accept less salary, then (SUCCESSFULLY) blames the society for this.
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The Cost Just Got Higher
(AP) The owner of a car dealership has been accused of killing two employees because they kept asking for pay raises.
Rolandas Milinavicius has been charged with two counts of murder in the shooting deaths of Inga Contreras, 25, and Martynas Simokaitis, 28.
All three are from the eastern European nation of Lithuania but had been living in Atlanta, Georgia, authorities said.
Milinavicius, who was having financial problems, told police he shot the two Thursday after they kept asking for more pay, said police in East Point, which is just outside Atlanta.
"He told us that he was under a lot of stress," East Point police Capt. Russell Popham said. "Unfortunately, he decided to take his anger out with violence."
Milinavicius, who had been living in Alpharetta, a suburb north of Atlanta, started RM Auto International two years ago, hoping to meet the demand for American cars in Lithuania. He began shipping cars and later hired the two victims as his only employees.
Milinavicius, 38, turned himself in two days after the shootings and confessed to the killings, Popham said.
"As I understand, the employees were not really happy about the pay, and they had questioned him about it over the course of time," Popham said. "That morning he said he just snapped."
Contreras and Simokaitis were cremated and an informal memorial service was held at Simokaitis' cousin's apartment over the weekend. The remains were to be flown to Lithuania on Tuesday.
"It doesn't make any sense," the cousin, Jaunius Simokaitis, of Fayetteville, said Monday. "If he was having money problems, these two would have been the ones to help him get out of debt. They would have helped him make that money."
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The cart before the horse
It's obviously not fair for a man to make more than a woman all things being equal. However, the pay gap between men and women is far less significant than the pay gap between classes and ethnicities.
The rage of the lower class, never being granted the same opportunities for education and college, warrants a lot more of my sympathy. I've been there. It hurts a lot more than a coworker earning a bit more than you.
Gender studies are very important, but let's keep them in perspective. The are far grosser inequities in us and around us.
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killing time
I know I should bother but, Brightstar said:
"As it's been said hundreds of times, I will say it again. Women have CHOICES, unlike men. Name one man who chooses to accept less salary, then (SUCCESSFULLY) blames the society for this."
You can read men right here on Salon (and other sites) bemoaning lower wages due to outsourcing, changes in global trade, gov't policies and (yes) discrimination.
Both women and men have choices in the marketplace. Those choices are limited by various of factors (race, education, location, gender, physical disability, etc). Several of those factors are ones that the potential employee can control, like education. There are ones that you cannot, like race. When employers deny people employment or advancement based solely on factors such as race and gender, we call that discrimination and employees can sue (or at least until the Supreme Court decides otherwise. Employers are people and they bring all of their internal biases to the negotiating table with them, most are probably unaware that they reward employees based on height or attractiveness or gender. I think these studies help people understand and perhaps overcome those biases. I don't believe those unconcious decisions fit the case of discrimination, unless it can be proved that a company's collective choice have in effect discriminated against a particular group. For example if ACME Corp had 75% of all Road Runner employees' salaries significantly less than Coyotes in comparable positions. Pay discrimination does happen. I've had it happen to me, and I voted with my feet and found a new job for better pay. I was able to do so because I had skills that were in demand in the marketplace, but many people do not have the option to walk.
However, I don't think the pay gap is a result of overt gender discrimination. I do think that women's choices play a big part in that. Those choices are made based on a lot of societal pressure (children need a parent at home and typically that's the mom), same with men who "choose" to work extra hours to get ahead so they can afford to keep their wife at home taking care of the kids (and so they all can have healthcare.)
For any man or woman who is living paycheck to paycheck with small skill set, the ability to negotiate work and salary is severely diminished. Yes, some of that is based on choices: Jim decided to become a Walmart shelf-stocker instead of a doctor because he loves putting things on shelves. Or it could be based on the fact that Jim parents were poor and he went to crappy public school system and never got a decent education so putting things on shelves is the best he can do. He gets paid crap and has no benefits but Walmart has caused all the other grocery stores in the area to close because Walmart can undercut the competition.