Letters to the Editor
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This happened to me
I've asked for raises twice in my life, both times when I was being underpaid significantly for the work I was doing. Both times, my male bosses seemed surprised and displeased when I asked. Although I got the raise both times, my take home lesson was that asking for a raise negatively impacts your relationship with your boss. It never occurred to me that there might be bosses out there who don't react negatively to being asked for more money. It also never occurred to me that the problem might be that a "nice" woman was asking for something. I don't have a problem with my current pay, but it doesn't seem right that I would be penalized for asking for more.
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fix the thing that is broken
Recently, the bias reflected in many 'pay gap' discussions has been to find fault with women. The whole problem would be solved, one gathers, if women would just make better choices or be more assertive. Perhaps now we can focus on the root of the actual problem -- the complex, male-oriented society that has developed over time, and which places women at a systemic disadvantage.
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Who Doesn't Negotiate?
We're always taught to get as much as you can upfront: get your benefits, vacation time, and salary ironed out so there are no grey areas. Are there women out there, above the age of say, 29 or 30 (who have a few years in the white-collar workforce behind them) who do NOT negotiate? I thought negotiating a salary was a given, and I thought the companies knew that too. Is that an incorrect assumption on my part?
I have, for the most part, always asked for a higher salary or rate for a project. I didn't always get it, but I did get the jobs in the end.
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I'm with you Fiery
I always ask for more and mostly get it. Even from men, and my last male boss hired me, at least in part, BECAUSE of my assertive personality.
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I always ask for more
It’s a good exercise in getting to know how a future employer operates. If he or she gets all bent out of shape I really don’t want that job no matter how much they’re paying. Also – being ‘less nice’ isn’t really the worst thing you can be in the business world. In fact I think ‘less nice’ sounds like a person who can get the job done without getting stepped on and taken advantage of. I’d way rather be ‘less nice’ then underpaid and overworked.
Of course – in the past 20 years I’ve only worked for men (it’s just worked out that way). That’s a little sad but I’m not about to take a pay cut so I can work for a women who thinks I’m ‘nice.’
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Not just bargaining for salary, bargaining for anything is hard
In our society, we'd prefer not to bargain. We, as a whole, find it stressful.
My husband, consummate negotiator, thinks it's fun. He loved traveling in the middle east, haggling for everything from carpets to postcards... it's all up for grabs, and expected to be. It's a sport there (and in many other places), a social interaction, a verbal chess match. But we don't practice negotiating here, we don't do it often, we don't grow up watching our parents do it. There are a few places where it is acceptable to haggle--big ticket items like cars, houses, and salary, or garage sales. That's about it.
I'm grateful to my husband for talking me through many rounds of salary negotiations at my last three jobs... he's a master, I'm a mere wannabe. I don't care if they saw me as less "nice." I can't take "nice" to the bank.
The best rule I learned is never answer right away. Always ask for 24 hours to think about the offer, and get back to them. At least for me... I can't think on the spot, and it gives me time to think about what they've offered and what I want.
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While we're on the topic of the Pay Gap...
...why doesn't Broadsheet review the book "Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, which outlines many reasonable lifestyle decisions that women make which cause them to earn less? It's been positively-reviewed by a great many business writers who actually have to interact with the world outside the "safe spaces" of Women's Studies echo chambers.
Would that be too off-topic a book for Broadsheet to write about? Or would it risk undermining your desperately-clung-to belief that all women are victims of a conspiracy of pay discrimination?
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More study need
I read the article and while I believe it, this hasn't been my experience. I have always asked for more money/promotions when I felt I deserved it and I have always gotten it. It has never hurt me as I have always been well regarded by my employers. Perhaps there are more subtle things at work here?
Even though I look very feminine, my work habits/behavior appear to be more like my male counter parts than my female. Perhaps this is why my employers are not penalizing me for my "aggressive" behavior? I.e. it is not surprising to them.
I think it might be helpful to study this a bit more since it provided no answers. After all even some men were penalized for negotiating. How does anyone negotiate successfully? Is the answer different for men and women?
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"nice girls"
If being a "nice girl" or "nice guy" is your primary job qualification, you're probably not in any position to ask for a raise. People get raises by being more important and useful to the company, relative to how much they're currently paid.
If you're so "nice" you're not asking for a raise because you're too scared, well you have no one to blame but yourself.
Everybody has to walk that tightrope between being a chump and overvaluing themselves. Welcome to reality.
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no kidding?
I've asked for raises twice in my life, both times when I was being underpaid significantly for the work I was doing. Both times, my male bosses seemed surprised and displeased when I asked. -- jebldmm
OMG! It's the patriarchy! Because that never happens to men!
lol.
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The only surefire advice on seeking raises
Is to stop whining about it.
Nobody likes a malcontent.
There are two basic strategies for getting a raise that I see as common:
A) The low risk strategy. Be so nice, so hard working, and so reliable, that you're virtually guaranteed regular raises without asking for them, so long as you're not working for complete aholes. However, you'll never be at the top of the pay scale that way. But neither will you ever risk friction with bosses and companies will probably fire you last even if downsizing because you're a great value. That is a good strategy for people who are naturally less assertive, who don't want the stress or have the desire/ability to reach the top, and who prefer security over risk. Both men and women.
B) High risk strategy. Be the best. Be essential to your company. Demand the highest pay. But if you can't deliver, and if you've over estimated your abilities, or if your employer has unreasonable expectations of your highly paid stardom, then look forward to resentful and potentially putative bosses and lob job security. Also, expect that you may have to go through more job changes and stress before you find the right fit. This is a good choice for those who like risk and willing to gamble they're actually as great as they think they are.
Ideally, everyone should make a rational choice. In reality men tend to choose the latter and women the former due to biological and cultural differences, like testosterone and social norms.
Those choosing A will tend to be safe and do fine. those choosing B will tend to either rise to the top, or crash and burn.