I've read that children of Holocaust survivors have gotten secondary PTSD just from hearing their parents talk about their experiences.

I can believe that. I've experienced secondary trauma on a much smaller emotional scale. Back when I was at a certain school, I had a (non-sexual) problem with my advisor that I shared with another woman. The problem was, she knew about other women who had problems with their advisors, and hearing about their problems only increased my own sense of powerlessness and anger.

But then you can't change anything if you keep it all secret.

One day the Counseling Center held a meeting for grad students about to graduate, and there was almost a riot as students started voicing their pent-up complaints about their advisors.

Things really started to change after that.

So I've experienced it going both ways.

I have been in sales for 20 + years. I learned my first month in business that you should never surround yourself with losers. In a phrase, "it brings you down". Always try to associate with people who are succesful, busy, active, and positive. Duh.

Where in American society are women's failures being enumerated? I have never seen this magical land. Please tell me where this place is so I can find out what women blame themselves for.

Far as I can tell, most women clearly and consistently enumerate MEN'S FAILURES-- ALL THE TIME. They are expert at it, imputing failures to us that rightly belong on women's laps.

Really, I want to know where it is women browbeat themselves and each other. I like to have a good laugh.

Carol,

Isn't Syrimne1's views worthy of a Salon article? How many women share them? Are they healthier than the stock feminist cant? What is your personal take of it? Is Syrimne1 mentally ill? In a patriarchal cage? Stockholm Syndrome? What can be down for her?

cool! :)

My point was...most people aren't going to sit with a group of women in the lunchroom and talk about their rape, even to elicit "bonding" or "sympathy"...and chances are, it's not going to do much but drop a dead duck in a pond, in terms of adding to the conversation. I would guarantee that most people (men and women) don't regularly talk about *real* traumas with even their closest friends...some may not talk about it at all, or may limit it to an admission that it occurred.

And further, I would argue that "just thinking about it" doesn't do a hell of a lot to heal it (and most therapists would agree, I hope!). Time and moving on with your life and action in the world are what serve you best, unless you're completely unable to get to that place, which to me is what real therapy is for.

That's all I meant.

Letters like yours give me hope.

Real trauma doesn't tend to be the kind of stuff people pick over and over and over.

Actually, *real* trauma (as in psychological trauma) is the kind of stuff people are forced to pick over and over and over because they're brains have been rewired into a memory loop.

Please, everyone, lets stop acting like the normal angst of life is trauma. It isn't. Trauma is an actual illness requiring actual medical treatment. Angst is just ... angst.

Yeah, well I'm a woman, and I've been through trauma, on a couple of fronts...and I don't find any value in sitting around dwelling on how "everything sucks" or nitpicking my mind into oblivion. At best, it's a waste of time. At worst, it could ruin my life if I let it.

It took me years to realize this, however. There is SO MUCH pressure to view yourself as a victim, especially if you are a woman! I hate this, mostly because I am still susceptible to it, and often in completely unconscious ways. If you don't enable and/or support this aspect of "female culture" you are seen as insensitive, heartless, etc., etc.

99% of the time, what helps when you are bummed is...exercise (d'uh), not the crazy, narcissistic kind of eating disorder exercise, but going outside and being in nature/the world and/or with friends variety. Hike in the woods, horseback ride, go running (OUTSIDE!), go to a martial arts class, golf, ski, etc., etc., etc. Being with friends can help, but I would argue it is MUCH MUCH MORE likely to help when you go do something together, especially if it requires cooperation and team work, NOT when you sit around and eat and complain about the suckiness of it all.

Meditation helps...precisely because it's about NOT THINKING! Thinking and talking never really help with much of anything that's emotional, imo. You can't "figure out" most of your emotional issues...all you can do is design stories to "explain them" that are likely to be 90% complete garbage (enabling in the creation of these stories is, unfortunately, what a lot of psychoanalysts see as their job). Success in life seems more and more to me about staying in the present moment and not grinding your teeth over the past again and again and again. Furthermore, to change most things (like patriarchy), whining and complaining and feeling victimized DOESN'T WORK, WON'T HELP and ONLY MAKES IT WORSE. When is the last time you wanted to give ANYTHING to someone who made you feel guilty? When is the last time you felt powerful around someone when you've decided every aspect of your life's happiness is dependent on the idiotic decisions they've made and/or opinions they hold? It's a complete waste of time to focus excessively on men as a solution OR as a problem, imo, as these are two sides of the same coin.

If you want to do feminist work, work with Equality Now, or a group that actually makes attempts to keep women from DYING of cultural stupidity (notice I don't say MALE). If the physical abuse can be ended, then maybe we can heal the psychological side ourselves...WITHOUT ASKING MEN TO HELP, CHANGE OR MAKE IT EASIER SOMEHOW. Because, hate to say it, but "men" (meaning the hegemony, not individual men, whom I like very much)...won't. And would you really want them to? I don't.

Sorry, I know I'm being self-righteous here, but this exact issue is why I could never really do much serious work with most feminists, although I support many of their tenets. It's also the reason I avoid "flocks" of women who feed off being victims and living in the pettier parts of life. Not saying men don't have their own ways of doing this...they do. But as a woman, I take it more personally when I see women settling for this. Real trauma doesn't tend to be the kind of stuff people pick over and over and over. It's usually stuff they could fix if they stopped acting like victims, or else stuff that is (sorry, but) pure delusion.

And it's not just women. Personally, I think the answer for the planet lies in finding ways of bringing hope back to people, and engendering that hope in others. The whole cultural pattern of victimization is getting really tired for me. The Left suffers from that abominably on a LOT of fronts. It's not enough to point out the problems. Start coming up with new models, new ways of doing things that aren't merely reactions to things that we all find intolerable...