For me this issue simply boils down to whose interests the birthing process should serve. Clearly the mother's, but also the baby's (or babies'). So in the case of a conflict, whose interest trumps? Especially when we can't ask the baby what kind of birth s/he prefers. Wait, I know: the baby prefers to live and to live healthily.

There has been no study showing that things like epidurals or even hospital births in general are harmful to the baby. But there are cases where choosing a birth not attended by some kind of trained professional (which I'll use to include midwives, of course) is clearly harmful to the baby. There are several examples of this from other posters, and I think my first child would have fallen into that category (got stuck at the end of the birth canal). So it seems to me that choosing an unassisted birth is placing the needs of the mother (e.g. "distrustful of strangers") above the needs of the baby. (This is of course ignoring the needs of the mother already described by some: I, too, know someone who would have bled to death quickly had she not given birth in a hospital.) When I was putting my first baby in her car seat to leave the hospital, a call came into the birthing center from a home-birth gone bad. I was so happy not to be that person, and I hope it worked out for them.

In general, while I support all the ways the birth process can be (and has been, in many places) made better for mothers, this excessive focus on the birth itself always seems somewhat selfish to me. It's just one small--even when it's relatively long, as my first labor was--moment at the start of years of doing what's best for your child, which as all parents know, doesn't always mean doing what would make you the most relaxed and happy. To me it's analogous to smoking during pregnancy, because smoking makes you feel good. Your baby might not be harmed from the smoke, especially if you smoke just a little bit. But there is ample evidence that there is some risk to your baby if you smoke. A funny analogy to be sure, because I suspect no unassisted birther smokes.

And to the poster who claims (falling prey to the already-cited fallacy of that the plural of anecdote is data) that women who experience labor pain just aren't in shape: wrong. Show me the study that proves this is, on average, true. Even if you could, it wouldn't hold true for all women. I have run marathons (fast) and ran a 5-K (slowly) while 7 months pregnant, and my labor hurt like a motherf*****. Until the epidural hit. Sure, years ago women didn't use epidurals. People also didn't use anesthetic for surgery or novocaine for root canals. Some progress is good.

Fenrisjello wrote: "I would imagine that in some ways primitive humans were much more fit physically, and connected to the cues and insticnts of their own bodies than the average modern american, thus enabling the birthing process to be more of a natural, normal event. Most people are content to live in their bodies as little as possible, allowing the media to dictate what they should feel (your menstrual cramps are unbearable! Take this pill! Labor is terrifying, long and agonizing! Take these drugs! ect.) I'm sure this viewpoint marks me as some "crunchy-granola-whatever" type, but I go with what I know. I enjoy living in my body, working with it, listening to it and using it. I am in the final weeks of my first preganacy, and have heard my share of birth stories, both encouraging and horrific, but I've noticed a pattern: the horror stories were always from out-of-shape women who asked for drugs at the first opportunity. Women who were active before and throughout their pregnancy experienced faster and easier labors, often beating the rush to the hospital, and disproving the notion of their inability to deliver babies themselves."

I am also in the last weeks of my first pregnancy. Except I am in the hospital on bedrest. I am expecting twins. I also wanted a midwife assisted natural birth. I wanted a healthy, active pregnancy. I am hardly out of shape. However, I had complications from the very beginning of pregnancy, and now here I am. I resent your implication that women who choose hospital births are fat and lazy. I am so glad modern medicine is here for me. It is ridiculous that some feel that only women who give birth med-free out of the hospital are "real" moms!

Someone mentioned their friend who did not get prenatal care and her babies ended up premature and disabled. How heartbreaking. I personally feel it should be illegal to not get prenatal care. Actually, in my state it is reportable to CPS!

"Because freebirth is such a fringe movement there have been no studies on it. However, a report in the magazine New Scientist recently quoted a survey undertaken in a religious community in the state of Indiana, where there were more than 300 unattended births in the 1980s. The neonatal death rate was calculated as 19 per 1,000 live births, compared with seven per 1,000 for the rest of Indiana."

Almost 3 times a greater risk of death for the baby - sounds free of common sense...

Question:

If I'm the father - do I get any say?

And if my partner kills a baby giving free birth against my advise, what are the legal ramification?

Is that manslaughter?

My labor hurt more than anything I ever experienced before or since, including appendicitis. Let's talk after you give birth.

The majority of posters share some common and unquestioned assumptions.

1. Planned hospital births are safer than planned homebirths.

2. Professional birth attendants save women from complications and death more than they cause complications and death.

3. Complications are as likely to occur in unattended births as attended births.

4. Improved outcomes linked to prenatal care are from prenatal care rather than factors correlating to poverty (e.g. unstable employment, unstable housing, stress, poor nutrition, etc, as well as lack of access to prenatal care.)

If we can set aside our prejudices and examine the facts we could have a meaningful discussion. I highly recommend Henci Goer's _Obstetric Myths Versus Research Realities: A Guide to the Medical Literature_.