Dairy Queen:

If you knew anything about pregnancy, which you clearly don't, you would be aware that perfectly healthy women have complications all the time. In addition, in my line of work, I have seen mothers who were drug addicts have complication free pregnancies and births. (Of course, the babies were addicted to drugs, but they had otherwise "normal" pregnancies. Since you like to twist people's words around, I should point out that I obviously don't endorse this behavior.)

I certainly don't appreciate your extremely rude assertion that I must be unhealthy to have had so many complications. And the fact that you haven't known anyone to have these complications just proves that you do know very little about pregnancy, as I suspected. I would be interested to see how parents whose babies are in the NICU would react to your implication that they are somehow to blame for their situations. It is pretty cold and heartless to blame the mother for things that are quite often out of her control.

The point is, it can't always be predicted who will have complications or not. You can do everything you can to have a healthy pregnancy, but things just happen. Women can even have normal pregnancies up until the moment of delivery, and something could go wrong. A woman I know of had a healthy, complication free gestation, and when giving birth the cord wrapped around the baby's neck and he died. Does that happen often? No, but it can and does happen.

I said: "Even in my case, where there are several high risk issues, my perinatalogists are willing to let me try to deliver vaginally."

You said: "Those words are extremely revealing. They're going to "let you" try, eh? Why is it up to them? Don't you have any insight or intuition about your own body? Do you only listen to what the machines are telling you? That's the first step in the downward spiral that leads from one intervention to another (but I'm sure I don't have to tell you that; you already know)."

Perhaps my choice of words was wrong. My perinatalogists are not pressuring me to have a Ceasarean. They are supportive of a vaginal birth, quite in contradiction to everything I have heard about OB/GYN's and perinatalogists.

And yes, I have had plenty of friends who have had both unmedicated births and home births. Most recently, my best friend had to be rushed to the hospital after laboring for over 24 hours at home. Her baby got stuck and her midwife did the right thing and got her to the hospital. But I also know of many success stories. I never said I was against home birth per se, I am against PLANNED unassisted births. Oh, and people I know who did have epidurals had perfectly healthy and strong babies. Even if that were not true, I don't think a baby being slightly "floppy" at birth is such a huge deal. The medication wears off, you know. The baby isn't going to be "floppy" for the rest of her life.

"One of the most important differences between people who understand science and those who don't is that people who understand science recognize that subjective experience is often wrong and only objective measurement will tell us the truth. People thought that the earth was flat because it seemed flat to them. People thought that the sun revolved around the earth because it seemed to them that it did. They were wrong."

I have two eyes, and know what I see. I know the difference between an alert, with-it baby and a drugged, floppy one. Objective observation is the basis of science, not just mouthing off statistics like you do.

"Similarly, it seems to you that babies of women who have received medication are different. You're wrong (AGAIN)."

AGAIN, I know what I saw, and what I continue to see. Babies medicated at birth ARE different. I wonder what their little livers look like under the microscope?

"First of all, your experience is incredibly limited. How many neonates have you examined? Five? Ten? Fifty? Certainly you have not examined and tested hundreds or thousands of babies, and that is what is necessary to reach conclusions on this topic."

Yes, it is limited, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. How many babies have YOU examined lately? Rumor has it that you're not even a practicing M.D., just another stay-at-home mother with too much time on your hands. So it may very well be that I've actually observed more babies than you lately.

"Second, this has been studied quite extensively, and there is no objective evidence of any differences."

Maybe on whatever planet you're on. Any cursory search on Google yields plenty of evidence to the contrary here on planet Earth.

"How can we take seriously your professions of concern for theoretical, or unproven, or made up "risks" cause by medicated childbirth, when you don't seem to care about the increased risk of preventable DEATH at homebirth?

I don't care if you take them seriously or not, frankly. The whole spiel about "dangerous birth" is yours to harp on, not mine. I live in a fairly large metropolitan city, and although my community of acquaintances and friends who've experienced homebirth is small, not a single one of them has ever had a child die, or any other complications that required intervention of any kind. Wait, I take that back, I have one friend who had to have a c-section after a homebirth, because her midwives were as lame as regular doctors. But in comparison, almost all of the people I know who chose a "safe" hospital birth got interventions or c-sections a-plenty. As far as I'm concerned, THEY'RE lucky to be alive after those kinds of unnecessary experiments.

"It's also important to be educated so you don't withhold life saving treatment from your child because you believe made up propaganda."

Again, what planet are you on? Are you high? I never withheld life-saving treatment from my child, nor do I know of any homebirthing parent who would do the same. That is just ludicrous and inflammatory.

"YOU need to do some serious reading, studying and learning. Thusfar, all you have done is spout someone else's made up claims and made up a new claim of your own. You don't appear to know anything about the basics of childbirth, the inherent risks of neonatal and maternal mortality, or basic statistics. You are not in a position to evaluate what you read; you just believe it if it appeals to you."

Here we go again. A mouthpiece of the mainstream medical establishment spouts off from on high about how ordinary mothers can't possibly know as much as their hallowed members, since we don't read what they read and believe what they believe.

It's oh-so-transparent, and oh-so-tired. Don't you have some housecleaning to do?