Letters to the Editor
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So is Ireland a fascist state or what
are Irish people allowed to travel without taking a pregnancy test?
couldn't she just get on a plane and go wherever and do whatever?
am I missing something here?
A
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How they knew
She's in state care. From the breakingnews.ie article:
"The HSE, he said, relying on the care order made, had given certain directions that the girl was not to be permitted to leave the State for the termination.
She has claimed that she has been advised by the HSE that the Gardaí have been notified that she is not permitted to leave the State and the care order makes it unlawful for her to leave the State without HSE permission."
The state agency, which is apparently her legal guardian knows her medical conditions (as they would) and they are the ones who informed the Gardai/ (dunno how to make a fada mark in HTML..)
For the rest of us, I suspect it's a don't-ask-don't-tell policy. They certainly don't make you take a pregnancy test to get on a plane in Ireland, so the only way that anyone could possibly know would be if they or their guardian informed the Gardai/ about pregnancy, the plan to travel, *and* the plan to abort, and the authorities would be duty-bound at that point to uphold the law.
Me, I'd go after the busybody HSE worker who blabbed confidential medical information to the police.
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She can't just hop on a plane
She can't travel because she's a ward of the state -- I'm not sure of her exact circumstances, but it looks something like the Irish equivalent of Child Protective Services had already taken custody of her, so she can't just up and go to England on her own.
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Care of the state
As the article hints, the girl is in the care of the state and her health interests are being represented by the Health Service Executive (HSE) of Ireland.
She is under the age of majority and therefore the state is acting as her guardian.
There is presumably no provision under existing law for the HSE to pay for her to go overseas for an abortion, hence she is seeking relief from the High Court.
This does not mean that Ireland is a fascist state, though it is true that its Roman Catholic heritage still influences certain areas of legislation, especially to do with reproductive health.
Anyone who has ever been in a health care administration position in the US will know that you have to be incredibly careful in these types of situations, or can easily lose your job for contravening some technicality of the law.
For example, if teenagers can consent for an abortion without notifying their parents, can they do so when they are detained in a juvenile detention facility--where all "invasive" medical procedures and administration of medications require a signed parental consent/
Courts have to decide these things.
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An Irish Solution to an Irish Problem
When I lived briefly in Ireland for a semester abroad, my women's studies prof described the abortion situation there as an "irish solution to an irish problem" and it's a phrase that stuck in my head. Unwilling to be entirely draconian, the irish governement bans abortions but allows women (thousands of them) to make silent "shopping" journeys to Britain with a stop-off at clinics. The question has always been when this state of affairs will be blown open, I imagine.
There's been a seismic shift in regards to sexuality in Ireland, though. A decade or two ago, birth control was difficult to find, and now not only is it available in pharmacies, but student unions successfully lobbied to have it available in bathrooms and clubs on campus. So my guess is once the current twentysomething generation comes into its own, the laws could finally change.
I hope this young woman, and all others, can have the freedom and rights they deserve.
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our laws are bad enough without inaccurate reporting of them
"Women may travel to obtain one -- often to England -- if they can prove that they are suicidal."
Our abortion laws are appalling and hypocritical, but they're not that bad. We can travel to get an abortion, whether we're suicidal or not. The right to travel was ensured in the 1992 referendum: ""Subsection 3 of this section [Article 40.3.3] shall not limit freedom to travel between the State and another state."
As others have said, the reason this awful case reached the courts is because the girl is a minor and some bastards in the HSE decided to tell the authorities (despite the fact that they have arranged abortions for at least six women in the past - this is all on public record). I recommend reading Irish reports on the case from the Irish Times or RTE rather than British ones; there have been inaccuracies and misunderstandings in some of the British reports.
You can find out more about our ridiculous abortion laws here: http://ifpa.ie/abortion/hist.html"
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Thanks, Stellanova.
I over-telescoped in my description. Thank you for the clarification.
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OMG
I wish Miss D the best of luck with her case. She has a tough precedent to overcome.
As grim as this news bite is, I still found something to chuckle over (through the horror): I think It's clear that Senator Napoli has attended a faith-based sex ed seminar if he thinks a woman gets pregnant by being sodomized.
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This story is wildly inaccurate.
The HSE -- well it depends a bit on the locality -- in general does not follow this approach. What is not mentioned is that in the past the HSE made sure that women and girls in this situation got a pro-choice solicitor and top civil rights lawyer (I know the solicitor) appointed to represent her interests. All of the barristers, especially Gerry Hogan and Gerry Durkan are first rate and the State as the Attorney General is backing her right to travel to get the abortion.
Basically this looks like SPUC -- the society for the protection fo the unborn child (a heavily US funded group by the way) has been suspicious because of its knowledge of earlier cases where the HSE funded the abortion. SPUC has, well snitches, in hospitals and places like that, and has been trying to place its people in jobs in public agencies that deal with womens health issues (Same tactics as in the US.. It has essentially lost the argument, but it is trying to attack the funding side, and also placing its people in decision positions. Given that this your lady will use an E111 form (entitlement form for natioanl healty services in another EU member state) and she does not actually require a passport to enter the UK from the Republic of Ireland, it seems hard to see how she could be stopped. A much bigger problem is that most hospitals are religious -- and largely catholic, which adds another layer of problems to abortion provision.
The full story as reported much more accurately in the Irish times is as follows:
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The State does not have any power to stop a teenage girl travelling to the UK for an abortion, the High Court was told yesterday by counsel for the Attorney General.
The 17-year-old, who is four months pregnant, is challenging the Health Service Executive's (HSE) decision to prevent her from terminating her pregnancy abroad.
The teenager, who can only be identified as "Miss D" and is from the Leinster region, has been in the care of the HSE since February of this year. She was told last week that her baby was suffering from anencephaly, a condition where a major part of the brain is missing. The newborn baby will not survive outside the womb for more than a few days.
Mr Justice Liam McKechnie yesterday granted the girl leave to bring a legal action to prevent the HSE restraining her leaving the country for an abortion. The case is being rushed through the courts and it will be heard in full tomorrow.
The girl says she was told by the HSE that it contacted gardaí to request that she should not be permitted to leave the State unless she was suicidal.
However, Donal O'Donnell SC, for the State, said the Attorney General's position was that the HSE had no legal power to direct the Garda to restrain a person who was the subject of an interim care order.
Furthermore, the Garda did not have legal power to restrain the girl simply because she was the subject of a care order, while the HSE order did not restrain a person from travelling anywhere.
Gerry Durcan SC, for the HSE, said it was anxious to take whatever course of action best secured the girl's welfare, having regard to legal restraints where a child is subject to a care order.
The HSE also wished to have the teenager assessed by a psychiatrist, counsel added.
Gerard Hogan SC, for Miss D, said his client was deeply distressed and could not live through the pregnancy knowing her baby would die, but he stressed she was not suicidal.
Abortion is illegal in Ireland, except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother. This includes a risk arising from the threat of suicide.
In her affidavit, the girl said her family circumstances had been strained because her mother was an alcoholic. Her father had never sought any involvement with her. Her boyfriend had agreed to bring the proceedings on her behalf as she is a minor.
Meanwhile, The Irish Times has learned that the HSE has funded the cost of an abortion in the UK for a woman whose baby had serious congenital abnormalities that were incompatible with life outside the womb.
It is understood approximately six other abortions for women in similar circumstances have been funded by the HSE in the last year.
The woman, who was four months pregnant, was referred by a gynaecologist here to a colleague in Britain using an E112 form. This is an EU procedure whereby a patient's consultant states that the person has a particular diagnosis and needs a specific procedure or treatment not available in the person's own country. The HSE then assesses the application and decides whether to fund the treatment or not.
It is understood that the woman, who is in her mid- to late 20s, travelled to Liverpool and had her pregnancy terminated. She has returned home and is said to be well.
A GP who was involved in the woman's care said: "Having immediate first-hand experience of the patient . . . I think there is a contradiction between the current case, where the HSE is attempting to prevent a 17-year-old travelling, and its approach in the case I was involved with, where the HSE funded a patient to have an abortion."
A spokesman for the HSE said it did not comment in individual cases.