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Letters
Friday, March 30, 2007 12:00 AM

Fatherhood funds neglect moms?

NOW argues fatherhood initiative amounts to sex discrimination.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Thursday, April 12, 2007 07:41 PM

Some Clarifications

1. Critiquing penile-vaginal penetrative sex (see: Germaine Greer) is not "espousing hate." It is simply espousing a different and unpopular way of understanding sex and gender relations. You can calm down now because nobody "hates" you, we just wish you would stop thinking your dick is made of gold and that the universe revolves around it.

2. There is no such thing as The Feminism. There are many different (often competing and conflicting) feminist veiwpoints held by a variety of men and women. So, no, you can't blame The Feminism for sexual promiscuity and frigidity at the same time, for your uppity girlfriend and your aborted would-be brother and decency laws and secularism and divorce and frozen dinners and STDs and unisex clothing and political correctness and your flat tire. Due to the richness and diversity of the movement, and the fact that many social forces often converge to produce specific policies and trends, unfortunately for you, it would be impossible to trace your particular family/marriage/dating life dilemma back to the Big Bad Feminists. One more thing: Only someone with a superficial knowledge of one kind of feminism would accuse the movement of intellectual dishonestly. Because many feminists aren't in fact after "equality." We prefer "liberation from male dominance." Not quite the same thing, buddy.

3. Many feminists and women in general are indeed openly suspicious of hetero male sexuality. C'est vrai! Now class, why in the world do you think this is so? Could it have to do with the fact that so many women are raped, molested, abused, and otherwise violated by men at some point in our lives? How about the fact that male sexuality has historically been celebrated, studied and promoted while female sexuality has been ignored and rejected until quite recently? If you don't see why an oppressed class would be distrustful, resentful, or fearful of their oppressors, I guess I don't have anything else to say on this.

4. Why do so many women refuse to identify as feminists? Wow, another tough one, Sherlock! Maybe because women are REWARDED for complying and collaborating with the patriarchy, and, I don't know, PUNISHED when we step out of line! Stop me if I'm making your head explode! Most women don't particularly like being threatened, harrassed, and patronized, and all of these things mysteriously skyrocket once the boys catch on to the fact that you want to be treated like a human being. Also, lots of girls don't like being called fat ugly hairy bitter dykes. Bad for the ol' self esteem.

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:27 AM

women feel attacked by pornography

I feel attacked by women who don't want to have sex with me. As long as the equivalence of the two viewpoints escapes significant numbers of people no useful agreements about these issues will be reachable.

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 09:38 AM

none

since long-existing laws already do that, I don't need to.

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 04:34 AM

fear and disgust

of male sexuality... is fear of rape, of assault, of murder; disgust and revulsion are caused by those that use prostitutes and pornography. mostly men. not all men rape or use prostitutes or compulsively consume pornography. but most of those that do are men. instead of railing against those that have fear, why not crusade against men that use their sexuality as a weapon?

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 09:21 AM

Brightstar

The point you raise appears with some frequency in popular culture. Anyone who partakes much of pop culture knows that men are routinely depicted as debased creatures, by turns stupid, brutal and incompetent. One revealing subset of this is that, despite the above, some men, if they get enough exposure to women, can be redeemed! (How marvelous to know that I am not necessarily condemned to perdition because of my sex. I'm so grateful.) The old Jack Nicholson movie "As Good as it Gets" is one example of this and the more recent "The Constant Gardener" is another.

Interesting too is that this only applies to straight men. Gay men according to this genre, already occupy the same high moral plane that women do. Both movies cited above explicitly make the same point. In so doing they highlight once again the fear and loathing with which much popular culture depicts straight male sexuality.

Monday, April 2, 2007 09:56 PM

men's rights activist, lying AGAIN!

Because this isn't about helping men be better fathers, it's about helping men control the woman. Bush dismantled several departments for women, one office in particular used to track injustices targeted at women.

This discusses budget http://www.thecoalition.org/whatsnew/appropsfs05.pdf and it's in the MILLIONS, not billions like the men's rights guy claimed.

Every single day, 4 American women are known to have been murdered by their partner. The actual number is far higher, due to non-compliance reporting by various agencies.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/ipva99.htm If men would quit beating their wives, VAWA wouldn't exist.

http://www.charmaineyoest.com/2006/01/condom_keychain_campaign.php Planned Parenthood budget 250 MILLION from taxpayers.

Looks like yet another lying men's rights activist. Why do they do that? Oh, cause the facts don't support them, that's why!

Monday, April 2, 2007 08:31 PM

RF, Kaliope, LeCastor

Just wanted to mention I enjoyed reading your discussion. I wish more were like this.

Monday, April 2, 2007 07:07 PM

GOD HELP US MEN

if feminists truly believe they are on the side of men and of doing good for men.

Monday, April 2, 2007 05:04 PM

"all women are lying bitches" "all men are abusers" shouting match. And in all fairness, on Salon we get a whole lot more of the former than the latter.

This is hightly debatabe, it seems that any time men say with any forcefulness or persistence BOTH that men are not like women AND that that fact should not require them to defer to women in all things they are accused of being abusive.

Monday, April 2, 2007 03:55 PM

Kaliope

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "screwed over," but for example men are much more likely to be crime victims than are women. Men have poorer health results than women do, meaning that they live shorter lives. Men die in war about 50 times as often as women do, and that's just the Iraq war which has the highest percentage of female combat deaths in the history of the US. Popular culture depicts violence against men as almost invariably appropriate and when a woman is the perpetrator, invariably so as far as I can tell. Men are discriminated against by family courts and family laws on a routine basis.

As I say, I don't know if things like that correspond to your definition of being "screwed over," but to me they're clearly wrong and I can count the number of feminists who publicly oppose them on the fingers of one hand.

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