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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 12:00 AM

Feminine wiles in the workplace

If women flirt to get ahead, does it reflect badly on them or on their work environments?

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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:37 PM

This is inspiring me

to come up with my own "Silicone Free" declaration t-shirts since we're on the topic of breasts. Go lactivists!

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:43 PM

Quick! Defend women at all costs!

In other words, there's always a perfectly good reason for women to be dishonest and manipulative if it helps them get ahead.

The REAL injustice is not who gets hurt or screwed-over in the process.

No, the REAL injustice is whatever rationalizes a woman's dishonesty and manipulation in the first place.

"I screwed my way to the top because I didn't get invited to a poker game!"

It makes perfect sense in a mindlessly childish sort of way, I guess...

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:52 PM

But the poll was taken by Bazaar

I question the validity of the results and how it may reflect the general consensus of professional women's opinions out there regarding this topic. The poll was most likely taken from Bazaar readers who probably does not reflect the more diverse group of professional women out there. Most importantly I'd take the poll more seriously if it was a study done in an academic setting where polls and statistics may have a more accurate structure. Bazaar is largely a fashion magazine and may appeal to a different segment of the population. In regards to the issue of the workplace I do believe a more effective approach would be to have incorporated what the cultures of most workplaces are like and how they are an advantage or disadvantage to women in general.

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:52 PM

you cannot have meaningful social interaction between men and women that doesn't have a sexual componet

not necessarily an overt one, but something will always be there. You can have rigidly (as far as men are concerned) asexual formal interactions, you can have no real ineraction, or you can have this. That's it. (obviously this is why a vastly disproprtionate share of the words women exchange with men are with gay men).

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:56 PM

i'm sure it's obvious but what I meant was

there can be no real social interaction between STRAIGHT men and women that doesn't have a sexual component

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 02:02 PM

I'd like to think that Harper's is downplaying its own intelligence to get ahead.

Some of these questions are inane and some are only possible to reply to with a nuanced essay.

I think that my company has gender equality... but I am the only woman in my grade and the one above me (I'm second-tier). I have no children, but my wife and I plan to.

I don't care whether I work for a male or female boss...but I have never worked for a female boss.

Of course socializing with colleagues outside work hours gives you more power. It's called "networking". I've never worked for a company where women were explicitly not welcome or where golf was an option. I don't know what a "female equivalent" to golf would be, but women can go out to a bar for a beer even if no male colleagues are present.

Of course dressing the part makes me feel more powerful. Like my peers, I dress either to be part of the team or as though I am a person worth listening to. It's costume supporting my position.

I've never sold out a colleague to get ahead. Why does it matter if the colleague is male or female? But of course I have felt satisfaction when I got to be right and someone I disagreed with got to be wrong. I'm a bit too team-oriented to be happy when someone fails. I want us all to succeed.

What's flirting? What's playing dumb? I'm not a natural flirt, but I am agreeable and charming and a bit teasing to people so they'll like me. (I think I'd draw the line at squeezing a colleague's bicep and murmuring, "You're so strong.") Is it playing dumb when I deliberately keep my mouth shut to learn what others are thinking before I have to show off my smarts?

My favorite: do you use alcohol as a "confidence crutch" at an official evening function? Has the writer of that question ever attended an evening function where the bar was not patronized by most men and women? Why is this a question to women?

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 02:14 PM

Spot On !

Great critical response, Catherine. Well done. You're right.

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 02:19 PM

Broadsheet's quiz

-Have you ever taken out your frustrations at a hard day at the office by grabbing a beer with your buddies?

If I have a bad day, I definitely grab a beer to vent my frustrations. If I have a great day, I'll grab a beer to celebrate. If I have a mediocre day, I'll grab a beer after work to...uh...drink.

So to answer your question: yellow.

-Do you feel more professional and powerful when you wear a suit and tie?

A shirt and WHAT?

-Have you ever attempted to manipulate someone in order to get ahead?

I once told my nephew I saw a fruitfly carrying eat a whole grape in one bite and he believed me. I thought it was funny. That got me ahead because I was thinking about it the other day during a meeting and I had a little smirk on my face that made people think I knew something they didn't.

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 02:23 PM

Flirting, my ass

It's always dangerous to extrapolate from one's own experience, but I just can't help it here.

I've worked in publishing, which is a fairly gender-neutral field, for 25 years, and I can't remember once seeing a woman get ahead by flirting, sleeping with someone, or otherwise engaging in "feminine wiles."

I really think the woman who flirts/sleeps her way to the top is a sister of the desperately lonely single woman. In other words, they're myths with which male losers comfort themselves.

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 02:47 PM

Flirting, MY ass.

Seconded. I've been working in IT journalism and software development for 15 years. I've never seen anyone flirt to get ahead. Be pleasant, sure. Tease, sure--when the corporate culture is to tease. (Since almost all of my colleagues are male, I tend to take my cues from them.) But I can think of no faster way of marginalizing myself in the eyes of my colleagues than looking like I was flirting with any intent at all.

Part of this may be my age (I'm in my late thirties) but to me flirting seriously in a woman would be like drinking far too much in a man. Do either, and you'd have to be freaking brilliant to make up for the perception you have just given that you are not serious about what you do. Since most of us are not freaking brilliant, it's safer not to do either. Getting ahead by sleeping with someone might give a short-term advantage, but would be hugely damaging because all we have are our reputations for being smart.

I did once have a male colleague/friend drunkenly grope me. (Luckily for him, he was also one of the brilliant and we were in a tight circle of friends/colleagues.) The next day, he came to me and groveled all over himself for being a drunken ass. I accepted his apology, and that was the end of it.

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