I just want to state that these "fatherhood initiatives" might be confused with, or might even include, male-involvment programs. These programs try to bring the father, or perhaps some other male figure, back into the lives of children lacking a father figure for whatever reason. They have nothing to do with marriage and they seem to be tremendously helpful to children. These are good programs and shouldn't be tainted with this marriage hullaballoo.

Two-parent homes may be good for kids. But there are much more direct ways for the government to improve kids' lives. What about better education and health care? A little money and attention in those areas would do kids a lot more good than any fatherhood initiative.

Maybe if the women weren't such b*tches the guy would stick around.

I don't even mean that.

you're saying if the guy is to have any involvement with his kids, he better walk on eggshells and pretend he likes the woman so he can keep the family together.

I agree, but feminists pretend that this is not the case.

What does Broadsheet have against married heterosexuals sharing parental responsibilities, or of anyone who supports marriage and parenthood?

One thing that annoys me are LW's who ask questions answered bluntly in the article they're asking about. Here's a great example:

What does Broadsheet have against married heterosexuals sharing parental responsibilities, or of anyone who supports marriage and parenthood?

And in the article:

The trouble with the marriage-focused approach to supporting fatherhood is that it neglects the wide array of nontraditional family setups (which, it has been argued, are becoming the rule rather than the exception).

If you're not going to read the article, please don't ask questions of its authors.

When will America embrace the nontraditional family?

Get your "nucular" family off of my television, out of my magazines and out of my face!

I look forward to the day when we all are on even footing, polys, gay couplings, single moms and other nontraditional families. The end of the patriarchal June and Wally Cleaver family is nigh!

That would seem to apply to traditional and nontraditional families alike -- a father's ability to financially support his offspring is beneficial to the children, regardless of the particular domestic setup.

Thanks for the reminder! I'd almost forgotten that fatherhood can be measured in dollars.

Would it really hurt that much to have said, "a parent's ability to financially support their offspring is beneficial to the children,"?

That's all you're good for.

Men = Dollars.

"which, it has been argued, are becoming the rule rather than the exception"

exactly who has argued the nontraditional family is the 'rule?' who has said 'when america thinks family they think of two lesbians and a sperm-donor baby.' how many times does broadcast media mention a non-traditional family without describing how it isn't traditional?

most families are and will always be traditional, and no matter how many times you tell yourself that a single mom, or two gay dads, or a super-intelligent robot can raise a child with the same probablility of success that a man and a woman raising their biological child, it's still a fanatsy.

When will America embrace the nontraditional family?

Get your "nucular" family off of my television, out of my magazines and out of my face!

I look forward to the day when we all are on even footing, polys, gay couplings, single moms and other nontraditional families. The end of the patriarchal June and Wally Cleaver family is nigh! -- Margaret Grrl

I believe your spittle-flecked diatribe answers itself, Maggie. It's a shame you're afflicted with some sort of disease that prevents you from turning off the TV or putting down a magazine. Perhaps there's a support group for your condition. Try Anger management therapy, for starters.

P.S.--Poly? Ain't never gonna happen. Best to kiss that one goodbye.

>>exactly who has argued the nontraditional family is the 'rule?' who has said 'when america thinks family they think of two lesbians and a sperm-donor baby.' how many times does broadcast media mention a non-traditional family without describing how it isn't traditional?<<

Well, about a third of births now are to unwed parents. Couple that with the high divorce rate and kids being raised in step-parent homes and I would guess that that makes the traditional family the exception.

Besides it's not what people *think* of that matters as much as what is really happening. I'm in favor of marriage but it's a personal decision. This money would be better spent elsewhere.

Yeah, out of my face! We're here and proud of our "nontraditional" families. Me and my partner have four children, raised in a gender-neutral environment. You have a problem with that?

My poly friends are also looking for equal rights, anjd I think they shouldn't be denied equal footing on the marriage front.

The world has changed - figure it out!

in this country effectively make fathers' rights dependent on his being married to the mother of his children. Single fathers' rights are placed in the mothers' hands. If she wants him to be part of the child's life, he can be and he can develop rights he can exercise. If she doesn't, there is nothing he can effectively do to preserve his rights. That is done solely by his being an active, 'hands-on' father, which the mother can prevent in innumerable ways.

Therefore, when people speak against marriage or when they say that certain non-marital arrangements are the equivalent of marriage, they are necessarily arguing against the parental rights of unmarried fathers who make up over one-third of all new fathers.

Until this country changes its laws to allow single fathers to asssert their parental rights, marriage must be promoted.

Women's groups seem to forget about the best interests of the children where any benefits from fathering is concerned. It's sad and abusive, but it is the norm in this country.

No wonder marriage and the nuclear family are on the way out. Margaret "Grrl" is the future of this country (shudder). Hard to imagine.

I'm a woman and I agree that father's rights have effectively been squelched.

I see my younger brother struggling with this every day. His ridiculous ex-wife was granted "custody" despite several arrests for DUI and even giving my brother a black eye! This custody only seems to be real in the legal sense however, as my brother is primary caretaker while she leaves the kid for days at a time to go off drinking.

If a father WANTS to be involved with his kids and there is no (real, not fabricated by a vindictive ex-wife) evidence, shouldn't that be encouraged?

/confused