Letters to the Editor
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The Tipster is Dead On
This continuing freak-show reminds me of having scary neighbors who leave their blinds down.
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That bit about 'obey' is rarely if ever in a contemporary Christian wedding.
I was married in 1987. "Obey" was considered laughable and archaic even then. The huge huge majority of Christian weddings use the word "cherish' instead of obey- and the men say it as well as the women.
There is nothing inherently wrong or patriarchal about Christianity. The Catholic Church and other sects have indoctrinated sexism, but it was never part of the teachings of Christ, who was an egalitarian guy who hung out with thieves, beggars, lepers and prostitutes.
I'm no longer a practicing Catholic but I get tired of people holidng up the Pope in Rome as an example of everyday Catholic practice. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in the US. The average Catholic in the US believes in abortion, divorce, premarital sex, remarriage in the church -- all big No Nos according to the big-hatted Papi. Most of the Catholics I know - and this includes my midwestern extended conservative Republican family and every priest, without exception, that has headed up the parishes where I've attended Church - are, in practice, tolerant of homosexuals, since most of us have one swimming around in our friends 'n family pool and can see for ourselves that they are normal unremarkable folks who simply have a slightly different take on what's sexually attractive.
Christianity is not all about anti-what-liberals-believe-to-be-right-and-just. It just isn't. I'm not a Christian, but I get tired of people trotting out the old tropes so they can skewer organized religion. Many people who belong to organized religion are good, honest people who wish ferverently to lead good, honest lives. They aren't all automatons marching along to weird sexist, racist, homophobic fundamentalist diatribes. Some are, of course. But most of those getting married under the auspices of Christianity are remarrying, have had premarital sex, have zero intention of obeying anyone other than the authorities and the IRS, and laugh at the very things that are so often held up as ominous, restrictive "Christian values".
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Sandra M beat me to it!
But yeah. No one uses "obey" anymore. My father started marrying people in the early 1950's and he NEVER used "obey". Come to think of it, as I understand it, my parents didn't have "obey" in their ceremony. I wouldn't be surprised if my grandparents didn't either. . .
Does anyone actually have "obey" in a protestant ceremony? Have they in the past 100 years or so?
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and the bride's provision for her husband...
...is contained in the traditional seussian refrain, “would you, could you, with a goat?”
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Obey and then some
"Does anyone actually have "obey" in a protestant ceremony? Have they in the past 100 years or so?
-- SnarlingCoyote"
I went to one just a couple of months ago where two supposedly modern people were married and used obey (just for the bride) in their vows. If that wasn't bad enough, the minister went on about how happy he was that the couple chose the traditional vow and that it was an extra sign of their commitment to each other. I was pretty pissed about it because the minister made it sound like those of us that didn't use "obey" weren't very committed to each other. Also considering that the bride and groom "lived in sin" with each other for a year before getting married, it was quite hypocritical of them to crow about their traditional values.
And then a few years ago my then-boyfriend took me to his roommates wedding in Knoxville, where the bride didn't just pledge to be obediant, but also that she would be subservient to her husband because "he, like Christ, is the head of the family, as Christ is for the Church." The preacher went on about this theme for several minutes. It was pretty close to an S&M manual for the couple. Which truthfully would have been a lot better and more entertaining. My boyfriend and I drove home from that wedding and I was really reconsidering our relationship when he said "wow, what a crock of sh*t, everyone that knows the couple, knows that the bride wears the pants in the family."
those were both protestant weddings, although the second was some weird (to me) evangelical offshoot.
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Obey?
I had the average Protestant wedding and "obey" was not in the vows although our minister said we could put it in there if we wanted to. (We chose not.)
Thanks to Sandra M., though, for her thoughts. Bashing on organized religion has kind of become the trendy thing to do.
My parents are actually evangelical-type people and my dad was even in Promise Keepers (although this may not be the forum to bring up THAT whole issue). I never saw my dad order my mom around and she definitely could never be accused of being "submissive". They also managed to raise four girls--my sisters and I--who all have since gone off to college and got careers of their own instead of marrying right away and pumping out babies.
A few years ago I asked him how he was able to reconcile the whole "husband is the head of the house" part of the Bible with how we actually lived. He said that when it says that the husband is the head of the house like Christ is the head of the church it's referring to how Christ died for the church. If a husband doesn't love his wife enough to die for her, then she certainly isn't obligated to submit to him. If he does love her that much,then he wouldn't be ordering her around anyway.
A cat and a what now? Maybe it's meant to sound whimsical?
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How stupid
a comb, a pan and perhaps a cat? It's just plain dumb, the whole thing. It doesn't make me think about marriage vows, but about how stupid people can be and still make tons o' cash and be famous and happy. If only their careers would end and they would go away. Certainly that's not too much to ask.
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I have my doubts
Regarding the poster who said that a "majority" of Catholics in this country approve of "abortion" - I think that has to be finessed a little. Most Catholics do in fact disapprove of the act of abortion but many have taken a "Look the other way" attitude about legalization.