Letters to the Editor
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To No Name Given:
Thank you for your 2 cents. Although I think it's worth a lot more.
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And what will we teach our daughters?
Will we tell them that once they say yes, no matter how violent or painful or disgusting the sex may become, they have to lay there and take because they initially thought it was a good idea? Look at your little girls and think about what can be done to them with this mentality, and tell me you still think it's a great idea.
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To mizbinkley
No, she was not a victim of sexomnia, she was awake, alert, and oriented. No, I didn't charge her, I let the matter drop. In many states, I couldn't have.
I don't know for sure, but as nearly as I could tell, she didn't believe I had the right to say no. She believed that it was a woman's right to decide whether or not sex was going to take place. So she was unprepared for the self-control involved, maybe.
My point is that it isn't always that easy to understand the other point of view. In your original post, you pointed out that men wouldn't understand correctly if they took the part of the man in the act, they had to take the part of a friend or relative of the woman. I agree. But do you understand why so many of them are protesting so vociferously? They are looking for a certainty that there is a time during sex when they can have sex without being worried that the whole world will come down on them. They know they wouldn't do anything wrong, but they don't know they wouldn't be accused of it. Whether that feeling is justified or not can be debated, but it should be understood.
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Reply to mizbinkley
Now imagine your mother, sister or daughter comes to you sobbing. "At first I was into it," she says, "but then I asked him to stop. But he stayed inside me, said he just wanted to finish up. He's inside me and he JUST WON'T STOP. And I was powerless to stop him."
Now, don't you want to show up at the "alleged rapist's" door with a baseball bat?
Sure (depending on aspects of the scenario such as would a reasonable person have understood consent was being withdrawn, etc., the sort of things we lawyers care about, but let's assume those critera are met.) I'd want to see him punished because he apparently committed a crime against my mother, sister, or daughter. That crime just happens to be something from simple assault to aggravated assault rather than rape.
I'd also want to be there with a bat if he punched her in the mouth and knocked out her teeth, or if he gouged out one of her eyes, or if he choked her to unconsciousness. None of those are rape either. They don't have to be in order to be highly objectionable (to understate things.)
I get the sense that you think that if we don't call it rape, we don't take it seriously. I think that calling it a felony shows that we take it completely seriously.
By the way, "wanting to show up with a baseball bat" is not how a society should figure out whether something is a crime. I think the father of the 19-year-old girlfriend that I had when I was 20 might have wanted to beat me to death for having legal and loving sex with his daughter. That didn't make it a crime.
So if you want to hear that it's bad: "it's bad." If you want to hear that it's a crime: "it's a crime." If you want to hear that it's rape, you have to change the laws, because it doesn't satisfy the elements for the crime of rape. And you might want to read my previous response about whether lethal self-defense would be appropriate; I'd be interested in your considered response.
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You know what's a really underrated movie?
Singles. You know, Cameron Crowe, 1992. I've seen it 20 times but I can't help it when it's on HBO.
Janet: "Cliff, are my breasts too small for you?"
Cliff: "Sometimes?"
Check it out if you've never seen it.
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Subject to abuse by both sides
Fully supportive of women's sexual freedoms and I do see the logic that a woman has the right to end a sexual activity when it turns violent or bypasses her 'yuck' factor in some way. But codifying a woman's right to say NO post-coitis can easily be abused by women who regret sexual activity after sex has taken place.
My concern over this sort of legislation is that it is never comprehensive enough. Legislators are either writing legislation to protect mens' right or writing legislation to protect women's rights, but they never take both parties into consideration when writing these laws. There is a penalty under the law for a man who doesn't stop an in-progress sexual encounter when the woman says stop. There is no penalty for a woman who cries rape because she regrets sleeping with someone after the fact.
Many women feel some pang of regret after having sex, especially early in their sexual lives and especially when alcohol is part of the mix. Heck, many men have felt the same regret. It doesn't mean they were raped. It means they made a bad decision. Maybe Broadstreet should start encouraging women to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop behaving like victims.
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How about this scenario
Years ago my old girlfriend and I spent a long evening drinking and then climbed into bed for some sloppy drunk sex. I'm not proud to say it, but I fell asleep during intercourse. She was on top when i passed out and didn't stop until she felt like it. I know this because she told me the next morning. Now, i didn't mind at all, but how did she know I didn't mind? We'd been having sex regularly for a couple of years so I guess she assumed it was ok. But the moment I became unconscious I was beyond the ability to give constent. Is that rape?