an effective, convenient and safe male contraceptive. It's the only thing that will allow men to take control of their own reproduction and consequently, their own reproductive rights. That said, I'm not sure a plug in the vas deferens is the answer. My guess is that it requires implantation by a doctor and so fails the requirement of convenience. Also, I wonder if it doesn't cause significant pain on ejaculation.

I think a male pill is what's required, and it seems we're a decade or so away from that.

I also suspect that safe, effective male birth control would provide a convenient answer to that peculiar manifestation of misogyny in which certain men suspect that women secretly sabotage their own birth control in order to gain access to vast hoards of child support wealth with which they will move to Malibu and set up housekeeping with an 18-year-old cabana boy. Not that we've ever seen that on these boards.

Seriously, though, every guy my age I've talked to has expressed tremendous interst in it, with the caveat that it musn't have any side effects whatsoever. Not that I blame them, but good lord, have they ever looked at the packaging on the Pill?

I also suspect that safe, effective male birth control would provide a convenient answer to that peculiar manifestation of misogyny in which certain men suspect that women secretly sabotage their own birth control in order to gain access to vast hoards of child support

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Actually, this is a real concern for men. Women can effectively "trap" a man, especially a wealthy man, into financial support by "accidentally" getting pregnant. One man I knew was with a woman who insisted he did not use a condom in the heat of the moment. She swore she was on the pill, and it simply wasn't necessary. Just a coincidence's that she would have also have benefited from a green card? who knows, but he backed off and didn't follow through with the act. This kind of thing does happen, and probably many more cases of a more subtle example where a couple is together and the woman wants a kid and simply decides the time is right and screw what the man thinks about it, Its not misogynistic to be prepared and be careful.

CW, your example is flawed. Even if that woman had been attempting to get pregnant by your friend (which is a big leap of logic, without knowing more details of the story), how would that have helped her obtain a greencard? Having a citizen child does not make it one bit easier for an immigrant to become a citizen themself.

And besides which, child support goes to supprt the *child*, not the woman. People making this argument often conflate child support, mythological welfare mothers, and alimony, which are entirely unrelated.

Outside the realm of the ultrarich, alimony is a nonfactor. Child support is usually a tiny pittance which will MAYBE cover the child's food and very, very basic shelter, but not much more. No medical care, school supplies, child care, birthday presents. Trust me here - child support does not benefit the mother of the child in any way.

And either way, my original point stands - male birth control would eliminate this extremely silly talking point.

CW, your example is flawed. Even if that woman had been attempting to get pregnant by your friend (which is a big leap of logic, without knowing more details of the story), how would that have helped her obtain a greencard? Having a citizen child does not make it one bit easier for an immigrant to become a citizen themself.

And besides which, child support goes to supprt the *child*, not the woman. People making this argument often conflate child support, mythological welfare mothers, and alimony, which are entirely unrelated.

Outside the realm of the ultrarich, alimony is a nonfactor. Child support is usually a tiny pittance which will MAYBE cover the child's food and very, very basic shelter, but not much more. No medical care, school supplies, child care, birthday presents. Trust me here - child support does not benefit the mother of the child in any way.

And either way, my original point stands - male birth control would eliminate this extremely silly talking point.

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Men pay alimony all the time, not just the very wealthy. A guy making 60k a year who has been married for even less then 5 years might pay 500-1000 a month, depending on the financial status of his ex-wife. He could pay that up to 2-3 years and longer if theve been married longer. Child support is even larger sums, and while it is theoretically for the child, the mother has complete control over how it is spent. As to the greencard issue in my example, he might have felt a bit obligated to get married to the woman having his child. He doesnt want his child thousands of miles away, he wants the child here, where he would have some connection to it. Thus marriage, and a greencard for the lady. Potentially. Divorce and family law issues still largely favor women, as do domestic violence disputes. Alimony is still a reality, but yes we are in agreement on the male pill helping solve some of this. A male pill would help give the man a lot more control over the issue.

Its not misogynistic to be prepared and be careful.

the word 'misogyny' is a trap. what it really means, is that some guy is not twlling a woman only what will flatter her sensibilities.

no man is that much of a slave, nor should he be.

in one ear, out the other... this silly word is another feminist rhetorical trick.