I have met him and he is one smart guy with a good heart. But I have to disagree with him on masculinity. I am one of the biggest critics of the idea that a man should be a man first and a human second. In my view, women should see a male as a HUMAN FIRST, and as a masculine persona SECOND.

Jensen treats this masculine stereotyping like it is something men impose on each other, but men do not do this to each other.

Given a choice, alpha women in America, the most desirable women in men's view, FREELY choose the feircest, most stereotypically masculine men and reward them with love, affection and sex.

A tough game to beat to try to be a complete man when the most desirable women seek out and force on men a narrow, stereotypical limiting path.

Oh Goddess, I am so friggin' TIRED of all this hubbub and whining whenever anybody steps even slightly out of the PC line. The conversation referred to was a private, off-the-record talk, the reporting article admitted that the people involved were speaking "affectionately" of Garcia as a friend, and that Arnold's tone was lighthearted and in no way mean-spirited.

And guess what? Not only was Garcia not offended, but most of the Latins I know weren't offended either. And I know plenty of Latin people, being Spanish myself and raised in a very social circle of family and friends that I'm often around. We make those kinds of jokes all the time! You should hear my father on the subject of Cubans. He's been there and loves Cuba, and he has said things like that. Hell, I've heard CUBANS say things like that.

Believe me, that was not an offensive statement. Saying Cubans are stupid or pushy or greedy would be offensive, sure. But hot-blooded? People of Hispanic descent, we KNOW we're hot-blooded. It's one of the things we're proud of. I can't count the number of times I've seen a Latin person roll his/her eyes over how torpe or soso the gringos are.

If you're going to ding Arnold for offensiveness, you're going to have to find something better than that. And Phil Angelides is going to have to do better, too, because although I wasn't going to vote for him before, I sure as hell am not going to do so now.

and Robert Jensen have finally figured out what most people have known for millenia - that 'masculine' connotes a lot more than 'tough guy.' Indeed, the historical men we view with most respect and whose achievements last the longest aren't tough guys at all. Jesus, the Buddha, Confucious, Mozart, Shakespeare, etc. don't much resemble Rambo. Neither do the countless philosophers, poets, scientists, engineers and artists across the centuries.

Our long-range view of even successful warriors is ambivalent at best. Julius Caesar? Great warrior, but not such a great ruler. Ditto Napoleon. Genghis Khan? Unquestionably accomplished at destroying everything in his path, but how much value do we place on that? What did he make that has lasted? Nothing. By contrast, whatever anyone thinks of Christianity, it is impossible to ignore the impact of Jesus' teachings over 2000 years. We still read Homer and Euripides, still view Greek statuary and ancient Chinese painting and pottery with awe.

The idea that the warrior is the "traditional" male role and that others have always been in some way secondary and that we are only now getting beyond that is simply not true. People have understood and respected the many male roles since, I suspect, pre-history. It has been only recently that the distorted view of man as warrior and only warrior has gained acceptance. That notion, being so at odds with obvious facts, could never have lasted long. Good riddance.

I saw this article.

They are turning down models with a BMI of less than 18.

The MetLife chart used by a large number of doctors shows a "healthy" BMI between 20-25.

The article gives the math for how they calculate BMI.

A 5'9" model would have to weigh 121.5lbs or less to be turned away.

That's still scary-thin in my book.

I applaud the Spanish for trying to promote health over coke thin Kate Moss, who's still dating that tool Pete, so she's still probably doing blow.

As for 5'9" at 121 being too thin, I disagree, one of my closest girlfriends is 5'10 and weighs 125 lbs, she does not look too thin at all. She looks just right, she runs marathons and recently became a vegetarian. So I think that numerical weight at times can be decieving.

According to the doctors when I was in high school I was apparently underweigh at 5'5" and 120 lbs, they tell me my ideal weight is 130 to 140 which when I did gain that weight I felt like a fat ass and stuff was all wobbly, now that I work out regularly and watch my fat and sugar intake, I feel fit and healthy and weigh 115 lbs and my new doctor has no complaints because she said those are just guidlines, not hard and fast rules because someone with larger bones than me would weigh more and be healthy at the same height.

"Jensen treats this masculine stereotyping like it is something men impose on each other, but men do not do this to each other."

What the f*ck ever. So when my next door neighbor smacks his five year old for crying like a girlie girl, women are at fault?