. I understand that the line between person and potential person is very fuzzy

By the very definition of the word "potential," then that "potential" person is also "potentially" something else, too. What precisely would that be? A puppy? A goldfish?

Speaking of ultrasounds, why do abortion clinics, supposedly the "safe" medical alternative, never use them? Because once the woman sees what's actually inside her, she almost always chooses life.

Actually, every abortion clinic I've ever heard of does ultrasounds. You have to verify that there's even a pregnancy, or if there are fibroids or anything else that would complicate the abortion or the pregnancy. You also need to measure the gestational age so you can know if an abortion can even be performed, and if so, which procedure is most appropriate. I've performed quite a few ultrasounds. Every patient had one. And this wasn't a big fancy clinic or anything. As far as I know it's pretty much standard.

And I'm sure this doesn't matter to most people who would put "safe" in quotes like that, but abortion is in fact many many times safer than childbirth. I understand arguing the moral aspect, but you want to stay away from the "dangerous/safe" area of discussion when we're talking about pregnancy and childbirth.

Women don't have abortions cause they think it's fun or because they don't know what a fetus looks like. They have them because the condom broke or they missed a pill and they believe that having a child in their current situation would be harmful or neglectful to themselves or to their future children. Many women have been drinking alcohol or taking any number of other recreational or prescribed drugs before they found out about the pregnancy. Many are primarily concerned with taking care of the actual living breathing children they already have at home. Raising a child properly is very expensive, and the fact is that some women have to make these decisions in order to care for their children. I understand that the line between person and potential person is very fuzzy and that's where all the vitriol comes from, but I can tell you that the women I counseled were looking to the future, weighing out these things and deciding based on what's best for everyone, including their children, their future children, and themselves.

Many people who are anti-abortion are also anti-welfare and pro-war. If anyone could explain to me in simple terms why a 7 week fetus is more important to protect than an actual living breathing child, American or Iraqi or otherwise, I would genuinely appreciate hearing it.

This smells like bullshit to me. Seeing as there are seven numbers in a local phone call, there are potentially seven numbers misdialed.

I don't really understand what you're saying, or why it smells like bullshit, so maybe I was unclear - what I meant was that businesses, and residences I believe, can request certain phone numbers. 555 BUGS or 555 FOOD or whatever. This particular place, which was listed alphabetically just below our clinic, chose a number that was, let's say, 555 2000, while ours was 555 1000. (Note: I do realize 555 is not a real exchange, I am attempting to illustrate this without using actual phone numbers, because that's rude. Just to be clear on the whole bullshit thing.)

Whether it was particularly effective I can't say, I just think it's kind of tacky. It would be tacky if it were competing hardware stores, but in this situation, it seems especially nasty, considering the whole enterprise is designed to trick people while they're most vulnerable.

I apologize for not having a good enough story. My life isn't real exciting, but it's not quite boring enough to sit around making up stories about phone numbers.

Prolifer wrote:

> Motherhood has gone from a high calling to disease and

> children from a blessing to parasites.

Oh good grief. Goddess save us from the cult of Saint Mommy!

Not everyone is cut out for motherhood -- Andrea Yates springs to mind.

Well then you go be a mother and enjoy every holy minute of it.

Motherhood has gone from a high calling to disease and children from a blessing to parasites.

Sure signs of a selfish, sick and depraved culture.

The human race survived because women used to have in their lifetimes 15- 20 pregnancies, 9 live births, and 5 children grow to adulthood. It wasn't pretty and it's a *good* thing that science has allowed us to be in charge of our reproductive systems.

Pregnancy and childbirth are physically and psychologically dangerous.

Gee, whiz. How has the human race ever survived?! I like that "psychologically" part, by the way, a perfect excuse for our therapeutic age where feelings trump morality and no one should ever, ever, be called to self-sacrifice when human life is involved.

Fetuses aren't harmless. A pregnant woman doesn't keep her baby in her pocket for 9 months- it lives inside her body, and it can cause great damage to her body. Pregnancy and childbirth are physically and psychologically dangerous. It's not something that anyone should go into without fully desiring and committing to it. It's certainly not something that anyone should be *forced* into.