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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
There have been endless studies of the effects of violent television and video games on the brain. It does contribute to a tolerance of violence. If someone watches an excessive amount of pornography, it's reasonable to assume that (at least in some cases) it would eventually affect that person's views on sex as well as on women. Women tend to be very passive even in most mainstream porn-- they're often ordered around; usually they're in a submissive position in comparison with the man (or men). And there's plenty of popular porn out there which is quite extreme and/or violent.
I certainly don't think that the use of porn is always wrong or bad-- I've watched them myself from time to time. But porn certainly has the power to shape views of sex and sexuality, to contribute to a blurring of the lines between fantasy and reality, and to reinforce (and sexualize) the subordinate status of women. I think it's certainly worth thinking about how pornography affects our society, especially men and their views of women. It's an important conversation that doesn't deserve to be trivialized by those who brush off any concerns, claiming that a multi-billion-dollar industry based entirely on watching people have sex has nothing to do with how sex itself is viewed and experienced in this country.
The Effects of "excessive" (what does that mean?) porn are well-documented? Well, if you accept the conclusions of the Meese Commission I guess.
Hide it. A small mintority of women will be cool with your watching whatever porn you want, but deep down, even those women aren't happy about it. Its one of those innate things. I'm no scientist (and apparently neither are some of these study authors if you really look at their methods), but there are some things that clearly demonstrate how men and women are simply wired differently and porn is one of them. As long as it isnt getting in the way, make like the rest of the population and let it be.
Melody wrote:
"I certainly don't think that the use of porn is always wrong or bad-- I've watched them myself from time to time. But porn certainly has the power to shape views of sex and sexuality, to contribute to a blurring of the lines between fantasy and reality, and to reinforce (and sexualize) the subordinate status of women."
Of course you make worthwhile points, but within a sexual context, in our species or almost (<-- qualifier alert, don't waste your time mining Wiki for tidbits on the reproductive habits of seahorses or whatever, people) any other, aren't females inherently subordinate? I mean, the term "subordinate" is laced with any number of negative connotations, but at a fundamental level, doesn't the nature and physics of the act of sex itself dictate this?
UMM, I don't know how to break it to you, but if this actually happenned I can GUARANTEE it had NOTHING to do with some sort of epiphany about how women feel about being "objectified" or really about anything to do with women at all.
"Of course you make worthwhile points, but within a sexual context, in our species or almost (<-- qualifier alert, don't waste your time mining Wiki for tidbits on the reproductive habits of seahorses or whatever, people) any other, aren't females inherently subordinate? I mean, the term "subordinate" is laced with any number of negative connotations, but at a fundamental level, doesn't the nature and physics of the act of sex itself dictate this?
-- No Name Given"
No, it doesn't. Once you rule out seahorses and all the other animals that don't have male/dom female/sub relations you are left with a very small group, and that group would exclude humans. Rape and patriarchy aside, humans are known (like rats) for their wild variations in sexual behavior. Human females for instance are not well described as submissive, rather as subversive. While men are off trying to impregnate as many women as they can get their hands on, women are trying to get knocked up by the best genetic material they can find. Ahh, notice I did not say provider. Women will marry a provider if they need to, but they will sleep around behind his back and get knocked up by men with very symmetrical features. Men with these features are the least likely to stay, and the most likely to make a woman orgasm. Female orgasm causes the uterus to contract and retain 80% more sperm than a woman who doesn't orgasm. 30% of all pregnancies are, uhh, by the "wrong" guy. Among primates humans are very unusual because you can't tell by looking at the females when they ovulate, we don't go into heat and we have sex all the time. What does this do? Confuses paternity. Among primates that go into heat, males will commit infanticide to send the mother back into heat so that they can knock her up with their own seed. Successful females in these populations have developed numerous ways to combat this, one way is to ingratiate yourself to numerous boyfriends and co-opt them as babysitters. But human females do this and more.... In the battle of the sexes, I'm afraid most species are evenly matched and rather ingenious in the ways they try to subvert the reproductive goals of their partners and competetors, if you set aside rape and patriarchy. Which, I do believe, we are doing now that they have been recognized as unhealthy social problems and not as a biological manifest destiny.
so we are left always with the same question, why is there a different and more restrictive standard applied to sex than to any other area of life. I personally think that women reading romance novels about good looking, successfully men being totally devoted to the interests and concerns of the female heroine of the story is totally unrealistic, totally degrading to men, sets up all kinds of problematic expectations and I want it stopped NOW!!!!!
Porn feels very different to many men when they see another male being "used" for pleasure in the way they like to see women used for pleasure.
--JC
Have your boyfriend watch D/S porn where the male is submissive, and see how much he likes porn when it's the man being used and subjugated and posed with a dildo up his butt.
--watsonian
Women tend to be very passive even in most mainstream porn-- they're often ordered around; usually they're in a submissive position in comparison with the man (or men).
--Melody
To alleviate the concerns of the above posters, from this moment on, I vow to watch only female on female porn.
I eagerly await the unending accolades my noble self sacrifice will no doubt bring...
That reminds me. Why don't real lesbians make porn?
Who has time for a 5-hour movie?
Therein lies the ugly truth about males and porn--all you need to know.
Well, truth, since men are so limited when it comes to sex, I would think you would be happy that we are concentrating our efforts on porn and not wasting our time disappointing real flesh and blood women.
Somehow, I don't think that's the case...
I think the real answer to that isn't "who has time for a 5 hour movie," it's more like "who wants to see a porn film where the protagonists move in together within the first 5 minutes and then nothing happens for the rest of the film."
The Porn actor/coal miner analogy is invalid. The point about porn work is that it's considered immoral. That's why you don't want your daughter doing it. Coal mining is brutal work, and you might not want to do it for a number of reasons, but it's not because coal mining (or flipping hamburgers,...) is considered immoral. Geez, isn't that obvious enough? Do we need to pass out smart pills?
I write fiction based on copyrighted characters owned by other people. Sometimes I write them having sex. Lots and lots of people think this is immoral. I don't care, and I'm not ashamed of my hobby, and when I can make money doing it I have (I've sold Star Trek fan fiction to a contest sponsored by Pocket Books and legally made money off it.)
The opinions of *other* people as to the morality or immorality of an action are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If my daughter wants to grow up to provide abortions to women who need them, I will be a bit concerned about the danger involved from nutjobs out there, but I would totally support her decision, because *my* moral belief is that this is a noble calling, despite the fact that lots of people would consider her a murderer of babies.
I'm sure there are people who don't want their daughter doing porn work because they consider it immoral. I don't want my daughter working for tobacco companies because I consider that immoral, but I don't want her working in porn because it's not safe (high rates of STDs) and she has life skills that could get her a better-paying job and/or a job that does humanity more good. Morality has nothing to do with it.
There are many people who think it would be a fantastic idea for their son or daughter to join the military, or for a child who's an engineer to work for the Department of Defense. My son wants to grow up to be an inventor, and my husband and I have strongly encouraged him to *avoid* ever working for anything with a military application, because that violates our sense of morality. Other people would strongly disagree and would want their sons to invent weapons for the Department of Defense if it were an option. So personal opinions about the morality of a line of work vary between people and are not necessarily *the* reason why a person would not want their child doing a kind of work. If my daughter's only choices were coal mining or porn work, I'd rather she did the porn work... it's less likely to kill her and it probably pays better.
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