Letters to the Editor
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You've got to be kidding me.
New Yorkers are weird.
I have not seen this happen in the Midwestern city where I live.
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Depends on what the meaning of "bar" is...
Got a menu beyond burgers and fried appetizers? Do more of your volume at tables than the bar? Then you're not a bar, you're a restaurant that serves drinks, and since you're not a fancy one, fair game for families with kids. Deal with it.
Real bars, on the other hand, of the neighborhood variety, should be inviting only in way a cave mouth is. If a stroller won't fit through the door, it's a sign.
Of course, parents who take kids anyplace without regard for fellow patrons deserve censure. Going out has to include being willing to take kids outside if they start crying or otherwise disruptive. That's just common sense, or it was once upon a time.
As an aside, taking kids to eateries where "they can be kids" confuses the activity of eating with the activity of playing, which is already a hard distinction to make for a three-year old. Better to go to a restaurant and THEN the playground. And cheaper, usually.
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Default to "no"
In general, I think bars are no places for kids. But, there are always exceptions, as in a number of long-standing neighborhood bars on the corners of residential neighborhoods in some of the older parts of Chicago, at least...where the owner of the establishment has seen a generation or two grow up, where longtime patrons bring their kids to show off to the bartender's grandmother who hugs them and gives them Italian sodas. In other words, when a bar serves the old purposes of a real neighborhood spot. My own mother happily remembers old corner bars in Chicago with two or three strollers parked outside from when she was a young Mom with me. But, visits were in the afternoon, and the other 3pm regulars were usually friends anyway. Otherwise, this seems like a no-brainer. Don't bring kids to a bar. I certainly wouldn't want people drinking at Chuck-E-Cheese.
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Stating the Obvious
Shouldn't these decisions be left up to the individual proprietor? It seems to me that the spirit of free enterprise dictates that bar owners should determine the culture of their own establishment. If they want to create a bar that is "family friendly", where parents can grab a pint while Junior munches on Cheerios, who are we to complain? They will probably make a lot of money. On the other hand, if a bar owner wants to attract adults who don't want to drink around kids, what's the trouble? They'll make money too.
It is easy enough for people to select the establishments that they wish to patronize. If they don't like the climate at one bar, they can always find another. What's the big deal?
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Very young kids don't belong in bars
or good restaurants either, for that matter.
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war on strollers, or on young parents?
New moms and dads are a lot closer to their bar-going days than they will be in a year or two. It was likely the social life that brought them together, or in any case the easiest place to meet up with their friends and have _a_ drink or two. The baby sure isn't going to notice the surrounding environment, and supervision will be really close. I have absolutely no problem with babies in bars, in the afternoon or early evening, with their parents imbibing responsibly and not hanging out for hours and hours.
I think the Sunday stroller ban is seriously judgmental - when, if ever, will the parents get some relaxing time? During the week, the kid has access to day care, one parent, the other, or both can have happy hour drinks without the baby, but is it likely? If it's just one parent going out for drinks, how healthy is that for the relationship? Not very: "My husband is a single man who happens to have a family" ensues from that. Whereas on a Sunday your friends are available to meet, they don't want to come to Baby House without a compelling reason, and babysitters are less available than usual, I'd imagine. So you meet at the local pub: the baby doesn't know, and so long as it's sleeping or quietly feeding, who really cares? Don't like the stroller? Clear a place in the corner for it.
I think the only "if you're a parent in a bar" judgmental attitude should be reserved for those who don't get over, or resume, their bar-going tendencies when the kids are sentient. Bringing a 3-to-13 year old to a bar just "'cause they won't get served" is sooooo inappropriate that that's where I'd lay down the law. Kids should not come to see bar-going as quotidian behaviour.
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Well Said
Mr. Heidel, I completely agree and couldn't have said it better. No one under the age of 21 belongs in a bar. Period.
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Insane
What the hell is wrong with Americans that so many of them think that they never have to adapt their lives to their circumstances? If you've got children, leave them home or don't go to bars. A bar is a place for adults, period. Otherwise, why not just take the tykes to a strip club as well? They're too young for the two-drink minimum and their little hands can't tip with a fiver effectively, so it's not like anything wrong is going on, right? Take 'em to the local XXX cinema too. As long as they sleep quietly next to you, I'm sure the other patrons won't mind.
Cripes people, show some freaking maturity. You shouldn't have to be told how to act like a responsible parent, but clearly you do. Kudos to the bar owner who posted the excellent warning, and I hope you bar-hoping baby-pushers get done in for contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
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babies in bars
I have never understood WHY anyone would bring underage children to a bar in the first place. However -- if the kids are well behaved and I'm not tripping on the strollers, I really don't care.
I behave in the bars. I expect everyone else to, as well. If your kids can't behave in a bar, then don't bitch at me when I don't want them around. Get a babysitter and do a bit more training at home so that they're presentable in public. That is, after all the function of a parent.
I vividly remember the last time I misbehaved in a restaurant. I was three, maybe almost four. My parents got up, strapped me in the childseat in the car (from which we had a view of each other through the window), and they resumed their meal while I watched.
Of course kids are going to misbehave. I do understand that. That's not the point. The point is what are you going to do about it? If it's nothing, then I don't want you in my face. It's that simple. Courtesy.